MrEthicsDude

I have been on the PE redemption/resignation list for five months. In light of the new membership documents we all received, I recently contacted the club to find out the timing of being able resign my membership. I was told that PE estimated the redemption of my membership bond would not likely occur until late in the 4th Quarter of 2008 (that is after being told the redemption would occur in the middle of the 3rd Quarter back in March when I submitted the notice).

Seems clear to me that PE is experiencing very slow sales and/or a large number of resignations (and more to come with the new membership plan issues)....neither is particularly good for the club. Is anyone else in a similar position? The club refuses to tell me how many people are on the redemption list or what number I am on the list. Makes me a bit a concerned about how the list is being handled as there is no transparency.

I am also concerned about the "new" 18 month restriction on redeeming a membership in the new UE documents (not to mention being very upset with how PE is treating its early members after the merger with the "new club" terms). I have no intention of signing any of the documents....and will be interested to see how UE will handle members that don't sign them (above restricting reservation rights).

Kagehitokiri

welcome to the forum MrEthicsDude.

hope its sooner than later.

Desties

Ouch!

Uh oh. Either DC4MS misheard during last month's interview about there being no one on the PE, UR, or UE resignation lists (which I doubt), MrEthicsDude is lying (which I also doubt, even if this is his first post here), Jim fibbed (which I really hope isn't the case), or Jim isn't as informed on club operations from the PE side as he may think (which is unfortunate, but may be the best case scenario at this point).

If this is true, being bumped from a Q3 to Q4 redemption says nothing about anyone that may have joined the resignation list AFTER MrEthicsDude went on the list. It is probably more indicative of slower signups. Since the UE marketing literature is pointing to a September price increase, one would think that this would be a good month for potential signups.

It would probably be a hassle for DC4MS to track down JT for clarification on the resignation list, but for anyone from UE's executive ranks watching this thread, you may want to address this issue as it clearly contradicts JT's words last month and get back to DC4MS.

DC4MS

I really don't know where reality lies with this issue, but I can assure you that I did NOT mishear his answer. I typed his response pretty much as I heard it.

governor

Not to stoke any controvery, but in talking with PE management several times I'd say that I do not believe the current resignation list is a meaningful issue. I'm very surprised at the comments here and wonder if there's something more extenuating to this situation?

LTTravel

I am curious to why anyone on the resignation list would post this type of information. If it is true, it doesn't help ones cause, if it is false, it is damaging, so no one wins.

MrEthicsDude

LLTravel -- I don't understand...the reason that I submitted the information to the forum was to ask others what they might know (which seems the purpose of the forum). I am not being negative, only trying to find out information. The status of a resignation list should be a business diligence issue (ideally public) that one uses to determine whether to invest (or stay invested) in a club. No different then SEC disclosure rules for public companies.

"If it is true, it doesn't help ones cause..." I promise it is true (and have the email from UE), but don't understand how is hurts "ones cause". A long resignation list or misinformation from the management should not be repressed....transparency is how the best businesses are run, even when addressing issues that might not be favorable to the company.

MrEthicsDude

Governor -- Nothing "more extenuating to this situation"...I have very much enjoyed PE and think that the legacy PE management has done a terrific job running the club, but decided in March to resign as I belong to two clubs. While I have been on the resignation list, I have heard statements (including on this board) that UE claimed not to have any members on the resignation list (which is obviously not true). I am just trying to chat with others who might be interested/concerned about this issue.

Kagehitokiri

IMHO this is VERY good information. thank you MrEthicsDude. i would hope UE would not take punitive measures against you simply for stating facts... (that seems to be a concern of some here.)

Interview with Jim Tousignant, CEO Ultimate Escapes – July 7, 2008 >

Bourne

What LTTravel meant by hurthing one's cause is that the only way you can get out is if 'X' number of members join to fulfill the 3:1 clause. By posting presumable negative information about the club on this forum, you may drive away prospective members that may have joined the club.

That said, I would have done the same thing you did by posting early and finding out if someone else was on the same boat.

Maybe I am giving too much leeway to Jim but another scenario exisits. The "read between the lines" version of above statement is that one should not expect a wire/check within 30 days of 3:1 clause being fulfilled as is the case with few other clubs.

As bad as it sounds, this delay might historically be 6-8 months. Given that, Jim was correct in stating that no one is on the resignation list from 3:1 clause fulfillment prespective, but they still have to wait six months or so to get their money.

__________________
The Nile is a river in Egypt......

star1000

Except that is not how the contract reads. Very clear -- we sell three memberships, the third is used to buy you out. No reason or legal basis for the delay.
More disturbing, is I know there are several members who have told me they are resigning and are on the list for several months. So Jim clearly said something that is not true. Whether it is affirmatively lying or just being ill informed, neither says alot for him.

What is more concerning is that the club is less transparent than before. PE used to post quarterly updates with membership figures as well as Board of Manager reports and minutes. These have disappeared. Before I tie up my money for 18 months I would like to know something about the finances of this new company. No different than if I was joining fresh. So why have all my requests to the company been ignored????

DestiFan

This seems easy to solve - all of us should ask how many people are on the resignation list by level of membership. All call your membership deirector and request theis information prior to signing the documents. Then report back...

DC Skeptic

I am on my Blackberry and can't work the quotes but you'll hopefully understand the references. I had promised myself no more comments here as I had largely stated my case as to what I think members should expect of the club and what to watch out for, and didn't want to wear out my welcome. Well following the posts for the last few days, as a banker I have to say that you have all the warnings you need IF your goal is preservation of your deposit. There are major credit issues here, period. Your membership deposit is guarded by the business acumen and integrity of the principals more than your ever changing membership documents. That the CEO could be as off base as this one appears to be and still be excused is amazing. This is all about trust and what I am reading about is lies.

I guess what I really want to say is if you can talk yourself into excusing this conduct you have no one to blame but yourself if this goes bad. Every one of you would demand better behavior from your children than management is demonstrating here, so why all the excuses? And really, for those arguing that honest dialogue isn't helpful even if it is true, if the club were really in trouble would you want or expect three new members to bail you out of the mess? That would make members no better than management on the truthfulness scale. You are only getting out if the club is healthy; sorry. So you better be demanding honesty from management, for starters.

MrEthicsDude

Whether is it UE or any of the other destination clubs, we all as members should be pushing the companies for transparency and full disclosure. The fact that clubs refuse to tell its members (or those on the resignation list) exactly where they stand is insane. They seem to forget that we are the ones that give them the opportunity to run this type of business with our deposits...meaning that we are investors/partners. One of these clubs ought to realize that full disclosure is a competitive advantage....and then the entire industry would change.

With the PE/UR merger, those being required to sign new UE membership documents ought to use the opportunity to apply pressure to UE management for full disclosure and make this new company a leader in the industry for ethical and transparent business practices. If so, UE would see an edge in competing for new members.

MrEthicsDude

Thanks Kagehitokiri....as a former federal prosecutor, I am not worried about being able to enforce my rights or handle the matter if necessary. I just want all of the industry to run more as public companies, not private/secretive clubs. Would be better for everyone....including the clubs.