vineyarder

I'm wondering about the advertised real estate values of the three UE clubs.

The UE website states that average values for Premiere is $1M, Signature is $2M, and Elite is $3M.

IIRC, prior to the merger, PE Premiere was advertised at $850K, Platinum at $1.5M and Pinnacle at $3M, while UR was $1.5M and Elite was $3M.

So the new UE Elite is no problem; 5 PE Pinnacle $3M homes plus 35 UR Elite $3M homes = 40 UE ELite $3M homes.

Meanwhile, UE Premiere is getting 5 former UR homes (plus the Platinum Trump property, but that is probably closer to $850k now), so 28 homes at an average of $850K + 5 homes at $1.5M brings the average up to about $900K...

Signature, on the other hand, has 21 PE Platinum properties at an average value of $1.5M + 29 UR Properties at an average value of $1.5M = 50 properties averaging $1.5M... So how/when does Signature become a $2M club? It would take 50 more properties at $2.5M to get the average up to $2M, and that would obviously take quite a few years... I had been assuming that a number of UR Elite Properties would be transferred into Signature in order to raise the average value, but that doesn't appear to have happened. OTOH, maybe it has happened, but we just haven't been told, and one can't tell from the website... Anyone have any insight into this?

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puffpuff

The values posted of $ 2 million each are rough numbers mostly for marketing purposes.

Desties

I too have wondered about this. It may be something worth asking during the PE town hall meetings in two weeks.

The only explanation I can offer up is that since the six homes moving out of Signature into Premiere are likely the least expensive, that the move bumps up the average of the remaining homes. It certainly wouldn't explain the full bump to $2 million, but it nudges it in that direction.

And as far as assessed values go, despite the recent real estate weakness, many of the $1.5 million UR homes that came from Tanner & Haley were bought a few years ago and would be worth more than that today. Then again, that same kind of assessment would also have marked down some of the more recent 2006 and 2007 purchases.

vineyarder

Certainly, but there is a pretty big difference between $1.5M and $2M; I can understand $1.85M being 'rounded up' to $2M for marketing purposes, but 'rounding' $1.5M to $2M is a pretty big stretch...

This might have an impact, but it would be pretty minimal; if you had 56 homes averaging $1.5M, and took out 6 homes that averaged $1.1M, the average would increase from $1.5M to $1.55M...

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LTTravel

I think they overstate the value of some of the homes. Would love to see each home in every destination club with an estimated value.

Kagehitokiri

agreed, but that seems sort of like rental value. they dont want people to be able to see which ones are a good value and which ones are a bad value, i guess.

Quintess Michael

To my knowledge, Quintess is the only club that has a "big 4" accounting firm do quarterly audits on actual property values.
Naturally, being completely transparent, that information is readily available to members or prospective members

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LTTravel

That's great. I wish it was available in all clubs and I think to prospective members. For example, If you are applying for membership and you find that the club you want to join is overestimating the value of their homes, who knows what else they are overstating.

overthetop

This is a great topic. In 2005, the original UR launched w/ 5 properties valued a $1.2 million each. Two of those are in the Elite club today valued at $3 million----Steamboat Springs and St Thomas. ???????

Kagehitokiri

welcome to the forum overthetop.

halogen's 2006 articles on UR say $2MM average value.

if anyone (not subject to NDA) knows the address of the steamboat property they could look it up here > Routt County Web Site

LTTravel

Looks like UE dropped their Lake Tahoe home from Elite to Signature and got a new home at Great Bear Lodge for Elite. At least that is what it looks like on their home listings.

http://www.ultimateescapes.com/pdf/sigrezguide.pdf
http://www.ultimateescapes.com/pdf/eliterezguide.pdf

I think that many valuations are off. I am not sure what the average is.

TravelGuy

I'm impressed that you do quarterly audits on actual property values. On the surface, this seams like it would be overkill and a not-so-necessary expense to Quintess and it's members, especially at the prices the "big 4" charge these days. Since property valuations are somewhat subjective anyway (other than actual sale and purchase price), why do you deem it necessary to do it quarterly? What is the process that is used to determine this "actual property value"? (ex: physical appraisal, compilation appraisal, tax assessment appraisal, CPI calculated value, etc....)

willmyclubmakeit

for UE values per assessors office (which seem to be more improvements value excluding the land so I am not sure this is accurate):

Rental property on Mark Twain Lane $1.1 million
Owned Mountaineer property $1.1 million
Owned Elite home on Snowflake Circle: $1.0 million (yes lower)
the second two also show Ultimate as the owner name on file in the assessor's office

LTTravel

assessors valuations do not reflect the market value, In NY, assessed valuation may be 10% of the actual market value and the assessed valuation is used for real estate taxes.

willmyclubmakeit

this is not assessed value but market value per the rout county website, for example, if you search under ultimate as owner you get the following:

2008 Property Tax Valuation Information
Actual Value Assessed Value
Land:
Improvements: 1,014,990 80,790
Total: 1,014,990 80,790

So while assessed value is less than 10% of market value, the assessor's office also shows a market value for this property (3012 mountaineer) accuracy of which is unknown.

LTTravel

I did a little research and it appears that the assessed valuation is not what the market price is. Just one example. I looked at this house which is for sale at $3.2 million:

Steamboat Springs Real Estate - Real Estate Property Details



The assessed valuation of the home is $1.2 million
Land: $756,000

Parcel Detail

Kagehitokiri

there is also this for the property you linked LTTravel >

Quintess Michael

As far as Tax record "assessed values" being accurate, I can tell you that they range anywhere from 30% to 110% of "Actual Value" in CO, and it changes county to county. I have owned homes in 7 counties in CO, and it gets a little confusing, but it all seems to work out in the end.

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Director, Membership Development
Quintess, The Leading Residences of the World