star1000

I just got my materials and am fairly upset.

It looks like they are charging an additional amount to upgrade to the Gold UE plan they previously said was being offerred free. There is no apparent dues benefit for those of us who have been in the club a long time. My dues for 28days of use will go up close to three grand. If you don't convert you keep your old terms, but will get no participation in any future benefits. Not clear if this means new properties. Its also clear that UE reservation policies will make it harder for legacy members to book properties.

Also, either way, convert or not, you are prohibited from resigning for 18 months. No option. Supposedly to give you a chance to experience the club.

Also, lots of cutbacks and increases. Reciprocity is almost doubling. $750 a night for a premiere member to use Signature. No more wine or soda provided. No help with flights or cars unless you convert. No daily housekeeping, even at Elite. If I was paying 40K a year for vacations I would be mighty pissed off if they told me that.

Huge change in occupancy goals. They are targeting 75% occupancy. A huge jump from 55% or so now. Just imagine what that will do to getting a reservation. Interestingly they talk about a 6-1 member property ratio, but define a member as one who has rights to 60 days. As under legacy plan most people used 25-30 days what this really translates into is a 12-1 ratio.

Perhaps I am over reacting, but I had hoped Rich and crew would remember those people who had faith in the club when there were 50 members, but I guess anything to make a buck.

Desties

Yep, that was pretty insane. So the aim is 70-75% occupancy, but the ratio implies selling 360 of the 365 days! Then I exhaled, realized that some of those nights will go into The Ultimate Collection of swaps and probably doesn't include seasonal rentals.

Then I thumbed through the brochure, realized that even the homes that got bumped from Signature to Premiere were still listed as Signature, and then put two and two together. Things can -- and will -- change. If occupancy ever gets stifling, they will realize the error of their ways before the exits pile up and trigger a wind down.

Still, I was probably more relieved than shocked to see that some of the doomsday "convert or die" scenarios that came up earlier never came to be.

I'm with you, I can't see the incentive in upgrading. Why would I pay nearly $3,000 a year more for 28 more restrictive nights (if I wanted exactly 28 nights)? I can do without the boutique hotel exchanges or the Bruce Travel booking perks. They don't make it entirely clear on the usage of new properties that will be added for PE Legacy, but I don't see that happening because their would be battering rams in Kissimmee and Fort Collins if they ever tried to sell an older property under that scenario.

In short, unless I'm misreading it at first glance, it is mostly fair. I wasn't expecting access to the 135 affiliated hotels or having more than 28 nights on the book at a given time. We're getting what we were promised, and that's that our original terms will be honored.

Hopefully there will be more carrots in the future, like the Redemption Assurance Plan (which I hope someone with more legalese experience can flesh out here).

The complimentary bottles of wine thing does appear a bit hokey. My wife is the wine drinker, but it was always a nice touch. Now the homes will have six bottles that you pay for if you consume? Can you say -- cough cough -- mini bar?

I am not ecstatic, but I am not concerned. I am content.

willmyclubmakeit

The RAP plan in effect gives you some security behind the mortgages for your refundable deposit (although it declines 10% per year) so you have security of 50% of your refundable deposit after 5 years as a member and 0% after 10 years. Again this is after the mortgages so if values of the properties declined a great deal or the loan to value ratio gets high it diminishes the value of RAP but it makes me feel more comfortable having it.

Bourne

I am more of a curious bystander.

Correct me if I am wrong but this one is impossible to enforce. "Convert or not, you are prohibited from resigning for 18 months." is probably not a part of the original contract.

willmyclubmakeit

the original UR/UE contract had an 18 month anniversary before resignation. I do not know how or if they plan to do such for conversions but that sounds like a traditional UR term. In effect it locked you into 2 years of dues before getting you could request your refundable deposit and it is probably one of the reasons there have been so few UR resignations (as well as the T&H impact). This does allow a member to get hooked on the terrific service and homes. Not a bad thing in my opinion. I have no idea what would or could be enforced but I do not think it is a question of permitting resignations as process and timing to get the refundable deposit. I also am not worried re: targeted occupancy level as I had always been told they would target about 70% occupancy and if they get to that level that still means nearly 1/3 of properties are not being used each day so there should be availability....key is that there is availability in the properties you want with reasonable lead time and that I presume is why they discussed pruning locations which do not have as much demand and probably considering adding properties in locations where they can get more productive use (I am a skier and hope they continue to add such properties but the data showed that Florida and properties like that had the most demand/occupancy so I can't blame investing there as long as there is sufficient availability to keep members that want to ski also available--a tough balancing act but I want UE to stay breaken or better cash flow so we can continue to enjoy the Experiences for a long time--we are not planning to cash out and ask for our refund as long as we are enjoying the vacation homes, good service, and are comfortable re: availabilty. I think targeting a higher occupancy is a sound and prudent business decisions and this is what comforts me about Phil (cfo) and Jim is that they seem to have some reasonably good business judgement and are willing to make some tougher calls to foster the long term growth of UE. Just my opinon.

Desties

The same goes for Private Escapes. The rub here is that it appears that PE members will be put on a brand new 18-month clock.

My biggest fear with that is that UE may be facing a wave of redemptions come February 2010, as it's the next available window to resign. Why would the club want everyone clustered around the same contract dates?

I seem to like nearly everything out of UE, but feel that Jim is dropping the ball by underestimating PE expectations. This isn't the same captive T&H audience base with every reason to lock in for 7 years. Presenting the UE Gold plan as an "upgrade" to PE Legacy is either cocky or naive. If the choices are paying more for the capped buffet or possibly being treated like a second class citizen in PE Legacy, it's not going to fly.

I trust that Jim knows this. If he was able to make the shell-shocked T&H immigrants welcome, I'm sure he'll do right by the PE crowd that just washed up on his beach head. He just may have to try harder than he thinks. I think we'll all be smarter in a month, when UE sees the number of conversions. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe star and I will be in a tiny group sticking to PE Legacy. However, if I'm right, and the vast majority stick to PE Legacy, it's going to be an eye-opener. PE didn't become the second largest ORGANIC destination club by accident.

DestiFan

Am I the only one that is seriously put off by this?

Housekeeping...this is a huge deal for me. It is the MAIN thing my wife enjoys on vacation - as it allows her to feel like she is on vacation. Why would they take this away from Signature and Platinum?

Escape Planner....I have to book my own flights, etc? Really? Is this now just a villa service? No planning, no housekeeping, and charges for little things when you get there? So I have to switch to UE - a much inferior plan - or I lose this feature?

Man, I defended this merger, this company, and this mgmt team, and I am furious at this situation. There is NO way I sign the new agreement.

willmyclubmakeit

UE side also books their own flights unless you pay a fee to Bruce Travel as I understand it. I book my own flights. They do all the local booking though so the concierge service is still available just not travel agency services. We also have been fine with once/week (or 5 days) mid week housekeeping. It actually provides more privacy. I think some of the resorts connected with hotels though provide more. I doubt your wife will mind much as mine does not re: that topic.

DestiFan

Trust me, mine will mind. One of the reasons I got buy in to the DC idea was that we would get many of the same amenities of a luxury resort experience --- housekeeping was the one that mattered most. ESPECIALLY when you have children.

star1000

My big fear with not converting is there is nothing to stop them from continually removing services. They could buy new homes and make them available under a program just for converted/new members. The whole pitch behind PE was that there was one class of member wihtin each price point. Everyone got treated the same and was on equal footing.

I also think occupancy will be tough. Right now at 55-60% it is tough getting any sort of peak or semi-peak reservations in many places. As an abstract idea 70-75% is might be ok, but look at it more closely. Does the 45% of the ski property time in mud season, when no one goes, count as free time. Winters in OBX? Fox Acres that no one really goes to anyway and they keep to avoid a loss and because its close to PE HQ? If you factor all this in 70-75% becomes closer to 85-90. And, if they sell more platinum and platinum plus memberships, those folks will have 60-80 days of reservations in the system while we have 28. Even Gold members get 42 days at a time.

What really dries me nuts is the number of times we've been told we can convert to Gold, and never once have they mentioned a fee to do so. Rich's letter says we have an option to convert. The only place they mention the fee is on the schedule in the back. Pretty slimy in my view.

The 18 months also bothers me. I joined, served out my original 18 mos. If it turns out this club is going the wrong way why should I have to wait a new 18 months. I didn't do anything. Note this applies even if you don't convert.

Bourne

IMHO, the mother of all questions is...

1. Will PE Legacy members be limited to PE Legacy Properties going forward. Access to UR properties during the merge process was a "nice to have".
2. Will UR Legacy members be limited to UR Legacy Properties going forward. Access to UR properties during the merge process was a "nice to have".

Doing it for new properties going forward is the best case scenario.

Points to ponder...
1. How will UE support services like daily housekeeping and travel assistance for PE Legacy at reduced level of dues across all UE Properties when it is not providing the services across all UE properties at higher level of dues.
2. Putting a 18 month no exit clause to cool down any hot headed reaction/decision.

escape1

Good Morning. I have also received my new (Legacy) membership packet. After an initial perusal I think that there is no real incentive to change from PE Premiere Legacy to UE Premiere Gold. Wine, Housekeeping, etc. aside, it looks like I would have to pay more on an annual basis at a fixed cost with no flexibility and get less available usage. I would think that if the goal is a uniform platform that there should be something in it for the Legacy members.

How about that at the LEAST, a PE Premiere Legacy member would be put at the UE Premiere Platinum level with the 42 days of usage, etc. The club could keep everything else as stated on the Schedule 1 that was supplied so that no member would have any financial incentive to leave via redemption gains. I was told that the reason the gold level was chosen is that the average usage was appox. 28 days even with unlimited availablity. If that is correct, then there would probably not be an increase in usage but it would sure feel better and make for a greater reason to become a UE Premiere member.

It's closer to the old program. I would also like to see in writing something about what is going to happen when new properties are added to the portfolio. The way it reads now is not very specific and I have fears that Legacy members might be excluded from usage as an incentive for "New" members (lower occupancy rates, more choices???).

Just some initial thoughts. I have a lot of questions, much as I did when I first signed up.

All the best.

DestiFan

I almost feel like UE is trying to make people not conform to the new plan....that makes no sense, but unequivacly it is priced and structured that way.

Kagehitokiri

welcome to the forum escape1.

DCTraveler

I think you are "sort of" a Gold member with 28 days, but you only get 28 days booked at a time and daily fees and other nuances versus 42 day Platinum members with full conversion will get 84 days booked at a time (that's right -- all 42 days for two years). And how will legacy members be able to book what they want when they want it? I think that everybody needs to be making a big fuss NOW so that they see that we are not the same as the T&H people who it was a nothing or something decision.

jam

That would be difficult for a platinum member.They can book two years in advance but can only use 28 days for advanced long term reservations. The remainder have to be short term space available which can be booked 180 days in advance for a platinum member. You can only book days that you have paid your dues for. I can't see how one could manage to have 84 days on the book at any one time.