DC4MS

What specific membership are you considering?

Sandman

We are primarily focusing on the PE Premiere Plan - not sure if we would go Individual Unlimited or Extended Family. We fear we won't be able to use it enough on our own to make the unlimited worthwhile though the concept is very appealing!

Desties

Thankfully, there is no ominous "mwahaha" laugh with jailed bars lowering once you sign on the dotted line.

In my travel experiences, the PE vacations have exceeded my already lofty expectations. The homes are NICER than the photographs. The service is BETTER than the pampering expected.

I have no idea as to what the financials and availability will look like, since I have never peeked into UR's books or booking system, but the thread here on Orlando/Cabo is pretty encouraging in terms of UR availability. I'm starting to think that past anecdotes of tricky availability for UR came from T&H members that were used to always getting what they wanted. In other words, it should be more than fine by today's availability standards.

If there is only one gripe it's that new properties aren't coming online at a rate of some of the faster growing clubs like ER, HCC, and Lusso. PE launched Pinnacle early last year and that included bankrolling several $3 million properties for a club that didn't have a membership base. The frustration of new property additions not keeping pace with new member additions was set aside with last September's merger announcement, but delays in that deal closing haven't helped. That should be resolved soon, one way or the other.

I think we're all looking forward to what the new club will look like, including the financials and property availability.

puffpuff

there is only one possible reason why PE premier properties are not coming on line as fast relative to HCC - membership growth at PE at this level has slowed or stalled. Why ? because dollar for dollar, HCC is a far better value overall, even after you factor in all the bells and whistles . PE simply cannot compete when the price differential is as large as it is currently.

At current prices of both clubs, HCC is growing and PE is not. Most potential members is voting with their pocket books, and the results speaks for itself. For the same price of one PE Premier, I can get close to 2 HCC. If value is the issue, HCC wins hands down today. you can more than make up the bells and whistles with more days and double booking privileges.

The perceived equalizer of unlimited days is a realtiy today and one that in my view will be eroded in reality terms in the future. PE Premier is good for some, but you are paying for the "premium" service and not for the properties itself. There is an assumpiton that this "premium" service will continue forward, and I believe there will be a crude awakening . Why ?

One wild card you have to factor in is that once the UR/PE goes thru, the availability of the lower tier PE is likely to change drastically and will likely be much tighter over time to come . As more members join, the current high availableity of PE premiere will erode because everyone is sharing the same pool. There is no way to protect the current PE members above and beyond what is available, a limitation of physical inventory.. While you may be "grandfather-in " in terms of the privilege to book "unlimited" days, the reality is that as membership number grows, the availabilty for current PE members will go down because of the crowding effect, regardless of the perceived privilege differential. the "limited " days will most likely be left-over days in slow season.

In time to come, the only way to assure of availability is the ability to book farther out ( which will use up the number of days on the book at PE). It all comes down to the same in time to come, whether you are grandfather-in or as a new member in the future.

I thus would encourage you to focus your decision making on the property selection rather than the "services" which you are paying close to a 100% premium for and that which I believe will be eroded in time. Current projection of availability should not be projected into the future unless there is a guarantee of this going forward.

I could be wrong.

disclosure : HCC member

DestiFan

Why will availability go down at Premiere level post-UR merger? As far as I know, no UR members will be at Premiere level and the Premiere level will gain houses from the transaction...so actual availability will be greater post-merger.

One point that I was interested in was the availability to move upwards in a club - which PE Premiere gives you the opportunity to do Premiere ->Platinum -> Pinnacle. That being said, people have stated HCC may be looking at that model as well, so I don't know if that will always be an advantage.

Bottom line is I am extremely happy with my PE membership and have had zero complaints on my experience to date - now if this merger would just close.

puffpuff

My assumptions is that there will be a concerted marketing effort once the merger is completed for all level of memberships. This will bring in more Premier level members at the new premier plan ( no unlimited days). Those who are grandfathered from PE Premier will have to compete with these new members. Theoretically, the number of properties should go up as more members join. This may well happen, but unlikely right away. Reason being the current occupancy rate may have room to accommodate more members before the critical point is reached that necessitate addition properties. Going forward, expect overall 65-70% occupancy as the norm and you will not be disappointed. That level of occupancy is the sweet spot for the operator in terms of cash flow .

Glad that you are happy, and that is what counts.

Kagehitokiri

puffpuff, so you are assuming the occupancy rate will change.
BTW werent you a also a UR Plat member at one point?

2 things without comparing average property/value/availability >

- while HCC does have some higher end properties, the reciprocity option with PE is certainly nice, regardless of the restrictions.

- PE and UR currently offer "equity" options.

Sandman

As I understand it, there are several new properties coming in to Premiere with the merger and no new members so availability will go up for a bit but will then drop as new members come in. I am hoping the the '2 week' members don't dilute the pool but the reason I am leaning PE despite higher pricing is the much higher availability I see vs HCC. (Also, HCC seems pretty leveraged relative to PE though I think it gets closer post-merge.)

This forum is a great source of information - thanks to the responders thus far!

Sandman

puffpuff

I am not sure where the new properties would come from. Certainly not from UR as they dont have any houses in this category .

I think anyone joining any DC should factor in an occupancy rate of 65-70% to be safe and not get disappointed. Any occupancy below that you are paying one way or another for it. There is no free lunch. HCC occupancy is higher, no doubt, but their price is lower. The reverse is true for PE.

I could be wrong.

Bourne

Sandman,

A couple of questions as you are in the due diligence phase and in contact with some clubs.

As I understand, there will be some realignment of properties between the three tiers in UE. Some properties that have lost value i.e. Miami, SoCal etc may be moved to PE Premiere. This may be the addition of properties that may have been communicated to you.

Properties can be moved around but members cannot. i.e you cannot unilaterally downgrade a member or selectively upgrade them. The point that I am trying to make is that for a dollar to dollar value, the movement of properties will have to include "upgrading" some appreciated PE Premiere( Level 3) properies to UE Level 2. Numerically, three properties may be added but at a cost of losing two properties. The net result of the exchance will be positive for UE Level 3 as it is the lowest priced level.

The above is my assumption. Is there any way you can confirm this.

As I understand, HCC is averaging around 40-45% equity. Could you quantify PE Premiere's level...

__________________
The Nile is a river in Egypt......

Kagehitokiri

re new properties - the average values are changing from $800K > $1MM and $1.5MM > $2MM. the merged property list has been posted.

im also not sure the price of the new 2 week plan is low enough to cause real availability concern, at least at the premiere level.

Bourne

Good point and I would like to add a few.

1. Quantify the cost for level of service included. i.e. Twice weekly cleaning, grocery stocking, etc. Also compare the cost of services provided at a cost. After all this, consider what type of additional service you require from local host and quantify that cost. Then run the numbers again.

We tend to overlook the service and its cost when comparing clubs on this forum.

2. Consider the long term growth plan and future of the club. See if it matches your needs and requirements.

Like Desties put, the good thing about a DC membership is that there is no ominous "mwahaha" laugh with jailed bars lowering once you sign on the dotted line. Find the right club that fits your needs and sign the dotted line...

__________________
The Nile is a river in Egypt......

Sandman

Bourne --

Good points.

From what I have been told, a few properties that have lost some value (or perhaps are the lesser of 'duplicates' between the 2 companies) will be coming down to the lower level but nothing will be moved up. Presumably this means we won't get more true new properties until a bunch of members have joined at the new Premiere. Which means the property:member ratio will drop short-term but get back up to 'normal' when they add new members.

My understanding is that PE is more of a 50% Loan to Value and I thought HCC was 70% but could be wrong there. I do think their properties were better bang for the buck but I felt availability (and quite possibly service - I admit I'm not used to much so hopefully will be happily surprised!) are better at PE. Also, a friend looking into HCC seemed to be getting several improvements to terms that look good for oneself but are a bit scary financially and availability-wise (ok-maybe not a word) if everyone is getting new differential perks. I understand they make offers to bring in customers (La Buscadora baby!) but too much tailoring is probably not a good thing.

Sandman

Desties

Really? I hadn't seen it. I have seen a preliminary spreadsheet back in October but nothing recent, and certainly nothing certain.

mjs

This has been a concern of mine for awhile. I think most of you would be surprised at just how much variation is possible from the standard published programs at HCC.
Mark

Kagehitokiri

Ultimate Resort and Private Escapes merged properties
less clear than i remembered..