Kagehitokiri

right, quintess is capped at 800 members, and then plans to start additional clubs. quintess and lusso (550 cap) are the only clubs to have discussed that strategy.

DCTraveler

The key word is potential. Some properties can be duplicated one for one like Nevis, Esperanza in Cabo and others. For others it might be more difficult. My point is to look at where and when he would really like to go and then look at it from there. It's just one week a year, so maybe that's a week that is better served by getting a private island at Cayo Espanto one year, a castle in Scotland the next and a private beach compound that sleeps 18 in Barbados another year. Just maybe it's a better way to complement or spice up an HCC portfolio.

LTTravel

I love the fine print in the rentals.

Per night
- 9 % Government Tax not included
- Additional taxes may apply
- Actual exchange rate may vary
- Security Deposit :$ 1000
- All rates and villa details are subject to change without notice.
- Holiday rates vary.
- Rates are based on double occupancy.

DCTraveler

That may be, but now the PE Legacy members are realizing almost all of the fine print that they agreed to upon joining and was the premise of the value is being changed in the UE world with no recourse at all. Oh yes -- we pay the entire "security deposit" ($200,000 not $1,000) up front and they hold it and we have no transparency into where it is or when we get it back. Then we pay for the entire annual fee in January in advance of club usage. Then we pay $140 per night. Then holiday usage varies upon our plan and a lottery. Homes can be sold or leases not renewed without notice (look at the UR properties that disappeared after the merger). Annual dues and nightly fees can be re-set without limit every 7 years. Then you go to Abaco and get charged extra for everybody else in your party and to park your car and extra for a golf cart large enough for everybody in your party. Hmmmm...

Kagehitokiri

DCTraveler,

as i said one should look at a DC's exact properties. even if discount is amazing, if its not a great personal fit or whatever, one should really think about that.

if one is going to compare rentals to DCs, one has to at least set a minimum standard in terms of recent renovations, recent furnishings, etc.

personally, i can almost see joining the base quintess plan and going to RC T&C every year. that is one heck of a value.

DCTraveler

I agree, but it really depends on where he wants to go and when and if he can get exactly what he wants for the one week. Somerset T&C and Esperanza each rent for $12-$15,000 per week, so if those are your week and it's exactly when you want to go you are even, except for the deposit. If not, you could have paid your rent and not lost $25,000 when you figured our you could have been ocean front at Hilton Head for the $12,000. Regarding renovations, etc., sometimes you are better off, sometimes not. Esperanza renovated and redecorated everything EXCEPT the UR properties --UR (or previous bankrupt owner) didn't want to spend the money.

Kagehitokiri

RC T&C has beachfront villas with pools, at a luxury resort, in a very nice, more secluded area.

IMHO all travel options are complementary, not competing. (competing only within a category)

TarheelTraveler

DC Traveler - Your point about looking at all options is a good one. It does absolutely depend on your travel patterns. You can save a lot of money with DCs or you can overpay totally dependent on the club and your travel habits. However, with respect to the DC complaints, those don't apply across the board. If those issues are important to you, you join an equity DC or a non-equity DC that at least provides some of these things. I don't think it's fair to generalize these issues across the DC spectrum.

John J

I was in the same boat three years ago and my decision also came down to ER and Quintess. The number of destinations and homes in the ER portfolio cannot be beat, but another factor I considered was how many destinations can I DRIVE to? I don't always want to get on an airplane to take a few days off. Depending on where you live, this may be a consideration.

I live in northern California and have driven to the Napa and Tahoe destinations several times for three or four day getaways. (ER and Quintess were the only clubs at that time with more than one nor-Cal destination). Also, Carmel or Pebble Beach is near the top of the most requested destinations in the real estate poll on the Quintess web site. (hope we get it soon!)

Regarding the enclaves, I am afraid they are necessary in some destinations to ensure the service levels and quality of home for the price. The original Quintess casitas in Cabo were absolutely unbelieveable. There were four of them. The club sold them in favor of 16 new villas in their "enclave". The homes are lovely, but they are not as large or stunning as the four original casitas. On the other hand, I can book Cabo much easier than before, and the service is impeccible.

I also like the "small club" attention of Quintess. It is true, I can talk to anyone in management at almost any time. They have conducted an extensive survey of the membership in each of the last two years and have printed the results and set goals based on the survey results.

DCTraveler

Tarheel Traveler -- you are correct that these costs aren't relevant across the board. BUT given that we have seen how a merger can affect the terms so dramatically, then YES, it could happen to members of any club. One less than perfect rental might not be that bad compared to losing a couple of hundred grand with A&K. I have two DC memberships and a vacation home, so I am definitely with the complementary products mode. I was just trying to make a case that with one HCC membership, maybe it's not another membership that is needed for an additional week, but to look at the exact properties and the great big world out there.

LTTravel

Where you want to travel and the available homes are definately an important factor in adding an additional membership. If it is only one week that you are interested in, and the destinations are right, DHH is a good option. Much cheaper.

Quintess Michael

Hello Gang!

StevenHCC,
Thanks for taking the time to do a comparison. If you would like, we can go online together and look at actual availability- I'll reserve homes in your name for a couple of days, so that if you want to join Quintess, there will be no doubt in your mind as to availability.

__________________
Michael Aumock
Director, Membership Development
Quintess, The Leading Residences of the World

LTTravel

You can make a couple of reservations for me also
(No, I just can't join any more clubs. I must remind myself)

Quintess Michael

Of course I'll make some for you LT!
That's not really special treatment, I would do that for anyone looking to join.
I think it makes it more tangible if have an actual trip on the books that becomes live as soon as you choose Quintess

__________________
Michael Aumock
Director, Membership Development
Quintess, The Leading Residences of the World

TarheelTraveler

A merger can affect the terms of any club, but at least with some clubs the members have a say-so on whether to accept the merger and the changes that come with it. Some clubs have transperancy. Some clubs allow you to pay your dues quarterly or semi-annually, don't charge nightly fees, don't include reset clauses, and are more upfront and realistic about everything including pricing, so you don't have to change it on the back end. A&K does this, but so do some other clubs in whole or at least in part, so I was just saying let's not paint with such broad strokes so to speak.

I wasn't trying to get into an A&K discussion, because again I think a number of clubs offer some of these features, but I strongly disagree with the comment that you could lose several hundred thousand with A&K. Yes, in a normal DC scenario that is possible, but I'm not sure how that is possible with A&K. At least 72.5% of every membership dollar goes into real estate that is owned 100% by the member entity that is owned 100% by the members, carries no debt, is creditor protected from whatever goes on with the management entity, the assets can't be used for any other purpose, etc. The only way that I can think of that you could lose several hundred thousand dollars with A&K is if the real estate porfolio as a whole goes to zero in value or fairly close to it. If that happens, I think we will all have bigger issues to worry about than any of our destination club memberships.

Anyway, on the discussion at hand, I definitely would test drive the reservation systems of both clubs as suggested. I suspect you'll find ER has better availability than is often stated negatively by other clubs, but that you'll still see somewhat of a difference, part of which is attributable to how the reservation system is set up.

DCTraveler

Tarheel Traveler -- I am so SORRY about the A&K reference. I was referring to the old A&K as I knew it that ended up being Tanner and Haley and went bankrupt. Nothing to do with your curren A&K membership -- I left when it was still called A&K and never think to call it its final name. I think that the current A&K plan looks really intriguing. My only issue is that I can't make sense of how they are able to offer such a great thing.

TarheelTraveler