Expectations with "Entry level DC's"

caribbeansun · 06-08-2008, 06:58 PM

I had originally posted a thread over on the HCC forum that started off with commentary about the size of their properties and the subsequent postings seemed to drive things a bit off topic.

What I'm trying to determine is what is a reasonable expectation when considering what others have termed "entry level" DC's - the two most often noted here seem to be HCC and UE Premier.

My personal experience is based on higher end TS such as *wood, Royals, Marriott, 4 seasons as well as some higher end hotels mostly Luxury Collection *wood properties among others.

I've been seeing posts about small properties, properties with maintenance issues, properties that aren't stocked appropriately, questionable availability among other things.

I guess my expectations were that these clubs were selling an "experience" as opposed to a room (with or without a view). However, when I see questionable preparation of the properties, noise problems, maintenance problems and the like it really gets me wondering whether my expectations are far too high.

Am I "out to lunch" with expectations that the entry level guys can't deliver? Are they no better than the higher end TS? I want to show up at a site and everything works, everything is clean and as a minimum the basics are on hand.

Am I missing something?

Kagehitokiri · 06-08-2008, 07:13 PM

how does PE legacy service compare to UE? that might be forthcoming...

PE certainly offered a lot more than HCC, regardless of tier. vineyarder brought that up briefly during his recent HCC report, and i recall quite a lot of past discussion/comparison, i guess mainly on TUG? hmm, should have come up some in vineyarder's comparison thread in HCC forum as well.

smtravelor · 06-08-2008, 07:18 PM

Our experience with PE Premium has been excellent. We have stayed in a number of properties (Big Island, Marco Island, Kiawah, NYC, Cabo) and on each vacation everything worked, everything was clean (spotless in fact) and more than the basics were on hand. There are always lots of new towels, robes, beach chairs, bikes, toiletries, the grocieries you ordered and everything else you need on hand. The local host meets you at each property and has snacks and drinks waiting and will spend as much time as you need making recommendations about restaurants, activities, etc. During your vacation, you can call the local host for any reservations and recommendations you need and the local hosts call you you periodically to see if you need anything. The Premiere properties we have stayed in range in size from a small 1 bedroom in NYC to 4 bedrooms with a pool in Cabo. I don't want to get into comparing PE and HCC, but I was really surprised to read the review of PDC by Vineyarder. I can't imagine having the problems he experienced at the HCC condo upon arrival in a PE property. This is probably due to the local host who is responsible for making sure the property is in perfect shape before your arrival. We have upgraded to Platinum/Signature (after 2 years in Premium) because of the merger but would probably have stayed in Premium otherwise. PE is more expensive than HCC, but we certainly have been getting our money's worth.

Kagehitokiri · 06-08-2008, 07:25 PM

oh right, i guess there should be no real changes in UE's lowest tier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desties

Premiere will also be getting some of the UR homes. Two in Lake Tahoe, one in Naples, one in Scottsdale, and one in Arrowhead (Colorado).

And a new property announcement, in the same Reserva Conchal in Costa Rica where HCC is getting a home, UE is having a new place built. In the meantime, members will have access to a 3 bedroom, 2,515 sq feet ocean view (not oceanfront) residence on the 10th hole of the golf course until the new home is ready.

although here is the question - did UR have the same kind of hosts?

vineyarder · 06-08-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri

oh right, i guess there should be no real changes in UE's lowest tier.

although here is the question - did UR have the same kind of hosts?

I am not positive, but I believe UR did have the same system of local hosts. IIRC, pretty much all of the DCs except for HCC has on-site local hosts, and I imagine that is part of the reason that HCC can charge much less...

Desties · 06-09-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caribbeansun

I've been seeing posts about small properties, properties with maintenance issues, properties that aren't stocked appropriately, questionable availability among other things.

I think all of those circumstances have come from HCC reports, not UE Premiere. Maintenance and stocked issues should never happen at UE because there is an actual host waiting for you at your property, taking you on a brief tour of the place and always on call to remedy anything that goes wrong.

But in HCC's defense, the noise complaint is relative to a Mexican property in a very lively neighborhood, the OBX property may have been rushed to be open in time for the summer seasonal rush but I'm sure it'll be in great shape as the weeks continue, and maintenance/stocking issues -- which I haven't heard much about -- are more than offset by HCC's attractive entry-level pricing. If you want a host there stocking your fridge, maintaining the home, playing concierge, etc. you will have to pay up to move to a non-HCC club and I trust that most HCC members are willing to pocket the difference.

In short, your complaints seem to be HCC-specific and not about all entry-level DCs. Since HCC is growing so quickly despite those shortcomings, I think most prospective members find the trade-offs more than acceptable.

caribbeansun · 06-09-2008, 10:06 AM

You are correct, most of those observations were specific to HCC but it made me begin to wonder if this would be consistent with other so called "entry level" clubs. I've been reading many threads trying to education myself but frankly if this was going to be consistent with other clubs then I'd save myself some time and just move on.

LTTravel · 06-09-2008, 11:21 AM

I think it depends on what your expectations are. HCC can offer you everything but some of the services are a la carte. But even the basics are excellent in my experience. I have a corporate membership and give away weeks to my employees and colleagues. I can give you a quick rundown of their experiences:

1. Cabo, Chief of Surgery, loved it. No problems
2. Cabo, Nurse, loved it so much she bought a timeshare next door (I was going to kill her)
3. Cabo, Office Employees, loved it, bugging me to give them another week.
4. Punta Mita, Surgeon, used to 4-Seasons type resorts. Loved it. Wants to go again next year. No issues at all.
5. Hilton Head. Office manager. Loved the home and accomodations. Only issue was pine needles in the pool. (not much you can do about it as they fell off the trees constantly). A little drive to the beach but not an issue.
6. Turks and Caicos, Physician Assistant, a wedding gift for her honeymoon. loved it. Only issue was that she fell asleep on the beach and lost her Ipod to the Carribean when a wave hit her.
7. Deer Valley, myself. The unit was newly remodeled, in excellent shape. I personally didn't love it because I felt it was too dark with too much wood (even on the ceilings, making the ceilings look low). The only issue was one of the three cable boxes didn't work and was fixed while I was there. They offered to refund me the days the cable box was not working.
8. NYC. myself, I was one of the first to check into the unit. I felt the unit was small but what I expected. Brand new and a very nice unit. The only issue was that one of the TV's was not connected to cable(Time Warner had come in and connected one of the TV's but forgot to connect the other- usual problem with them in NYC). They offered to refund the days to me.
9. Stowe, surgeon. Loved the unit, went up to relax by himself, had a great time playing golf, out to eat. No problems at all with the unit
10. Stowe, Cardiologist and family. Couldn't believe how nice the unit was. Were going to stay at the Equinox is a single room with 4 people and I noticed Stowe was available and gave it to them. They cancelled the Equinox and loved the home, the space, the service, etc. Were able to get restaurant reservations, side trips and hiking with the HCC concierge services and loved it. If they hadn't just bought a week at Marriott Aruba, would have probably joined, but instead will probably bug me for another weekend or week.
11. LaCosta. I have people in the office fighting for this week.
12. OBX- I'll let you know

With ER I have had issues with missing salt and pepper shakers (In the Ritz!), Phones not working, a hot tub that was not hot enough, etc. so there are issues everywhere, but they are promptly taken care of (never offered a refund of the days from ER for the missing salt and pepper shaker

) . I guess sometimes I like being met by a concierge and shown around the property(As long as I have enough cash to pass around to everyone helping with the bags, and trying to figure out how much I will leave the concierge at the end of the trip) and other times I don't want to be bothered and prefer just going in myself. I Know what to expect and HCC and ER have both delivered an excellent product.

vineyarder · 06-09-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTTravel

I guess sometimes I like being met by a concierge and shown around the property(As long as I have enough cash to pass around to everyone helping with the bags, and trying to figure out how much I will leave the concierge at the end of the trip) and other times I don't want to be bothered and prefer just going in myself.

One thing I really appreciate with PE is the strict 'no tipping' policy; you are encouraged to fill out a survey after your stay, and the local host/concierge gets some sort of bonuses based on their ratings, but are not allowed to accept tips...

willmyclubmakeit · 06-09-2008, 09:26 PM

The no tipping policy will be new to us as former UR side where we felt obligated to tip the concierges and they deserved it. They made sure everything was in tip top shape and any minor issues we would face would be resolved immediately. The local concierges are most helpful and its a fine line whether you want to see them often or just be on call. However, they are there to make things easier for us and provide local advice and they have done that admirably. They are key to the service and worry free vacations in our opinion.

Kagehitokiri · 06-09-2008, 09:37 PM

so UE has made PE's non-tipping policy standard?

willmyclubmakeit · 06-09-2008, 09:47 PM

yes according to the newsletter that was distributed last week.

vineyarder · 06-10-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willmyclubmakeit

yes according to the newsletter that was distributed last week.

That's great to hear; personally I find it quite strange that even though the merger has officially closed, we are still getting different memos/newsletters/emails depending on whether we are 'PE legacy' or 'UR legacy'; I haven't heard a word from jim tousignant; I still just get communications from PE mgmt... so I didn't know whether the 'no tipping' policy was still in force...

rwhaugan · 06-10-2008, 02:55 AM

LT

I don't want to get off topic, but why would you join more than one club? It seems as though a person would simply add more time to their existing club. What did you want to be different, did the new club meet those expectations, and how, in general, are the two clubs different.

Kagehitokiri · 06-10-2008, 03:08 AM

a number of posters here belong to multiple clubs.

personally, i see DCs as only a part of a luxury travel portfolio. (the only 'ownership' component for myself.)

"more time" also kind of depends on the club. for example lusso offers unlimited use, and solstice offers unlimited space available use.

and IMHO the question is fully on topic, as there are posters here who belong to multiple "entry level" clubs, or an "entry level" club and a higher end club.

LTTravel · 06-10-2008, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwhaugan

LT

I don't want to get off topic, but why would you join more than one club? It seems as though a person would simply add more time to their existing club. What did you want to be different, did the new club meet those expectations, and how, in general, are the two clubs different.

I think just the opposite. For example, I would probably rather have a smaller membership in ER and Quintess if I could, rather than the highest membership in either club. Though the higher membership levels usually give you a discount on the extra days, in the cases of some clubs, they are not significant and you may be able to enjoy two holidays instead of one. Of course this is not always the case, especially since membership plans have changed considerably over the last year or two. This allows you to have more variety and a better chance at getting the destinations you want. For example, Quintess' Costa Rica home was mediocre (that is why the got rid of it) whereas ER's are great. Quintess' Jackson Hole homes are fantastic, whereas ER's are just OK. I don't have enough vacation time to join Quintess, but if I did, and had a low level ER membership, I think that would be a good combo. Just as an example.
As for the reasoning for my particular memberships:
I enjoy ER and the homes. I joined HCC at the corporate level a while ago when it was significantly cheaper(and an "equity" membership). I give away most of the weeks to my colleagues, friends and staff, as bonus', wedding presents, etc. I do use a little bit of the time myself as well. My colleagues and employees are very appreciative.

(which I cannot with ER both because they do not allow you and the cost would be significant. They do not have a corporate plan, though the Ultra may allow you to share some weeks.) As for DHH, they offer something most other clubs do not. At the time I joined the membership fee was VERY low. DHH offers more international destinations as well as Boats, which most of the others do not. The introductory price for DHH was only $25,000 per week. I thought that even if they folded,

06-08-2008, 06:58 PM	#1
caribbeansun Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 305 Club: High Country Club	Expectations with "Entry level DC's" I had originally posted a thread over on the HCC forum that started off with commentary about the size of their properties and the subsequent postings seemed to drive things a bit off topic. What I'm trying to determine is what is a reasonable expectation when considering what others have termed "entry level" DC's - the two most often noted here seem to be HCC and UE Premier. My personal experience is based on higher end TS such as wood, Royals, Marriott, 4 seasons as well as some higher end hotels mostly Luxury Collection wood properties among others. I've been seeing posts about small properties, properties with maintenance issues, properties that aren't stocked appropriately, questionable availability among other things. I guess my expectations were that these clubs were selling an "experience" as opposed to a room (with or without a view). However, when I see questionable preparation of the properties, noise problems, maintenance problems and the like it really gets me wondering whether my expectations are far too high. Am I "out to lunch" with expectations that the entry level guys can't deliver? Are they no better than the higher end TS? I want to show up at a site and everything works, everything is clean and as a minimum the basics are on hand. Am I missing something?

06-08-2008, 07:13 PM	#2
Kagehitokiri Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,620	Re: Expectations with "Entry level DC's" how does PE legacy service compare to UE? that might be forthcoming... PE certainly offered a lot more than HCC, regardless of tier. vineyarder brought that up briefly during his recent HCC report, and i recall quite a lot of past discussion/comparison, i guess mainly on TUG? hmm, should have come up some in vineyarder's comparison thread in HCC forum as well.

06-08-2008, 07:18 PM	#3
smtravelor Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NY Posts: 30 Club: Ultimate Escapes	Re: Expectations with "Entry level DC's" Our experience with PE Premium has been excellent. We have stayed in a number of properties (Big Island, Marco Island, Kiawah, NYC, Cabo) and on each vacation everything worked, everything was clean (spotless in fact) and more than the basics were on hand. There are always lots of new towels, robes, beach chairs, bikes, toiletries, the grocieries you ordered and everything else you need on hand. The local host meets you at each property and has snacks and drinks waiting and will spend as much time as you need making recommendations about restaurants, activities, etc. During your vacation, you can call the local host for any reservations and recommendations you need and the local hosts call you you periodically to see if you need anything. The Premiere properties we have stayed in range in size from a small 1 bedroom in NYC to 4 bedrooms with a pool in Cabo. I don't want to get into comparing PE and HCC, but I was really surprised to read the review of PDC by Vineyarder. I can't imagine having the problems he experienced at the HCC condo upon arrival in a PE property. This is probably due to the local host who is responsible for making sure the property is in perfect shape before your arrival. We have upgraded to Platinum/Signature (after 2 years in Premium) because of the merger but would probably have stayed in Premium otherwise. PE is more expensive than HCC, but we certainly have been getting our money's worth.

06-09-2008, 10:06 AM	#7
caribbeansun Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 305 Club: High Country Club	Re: Expectations with "Entry level DC's" You are correct, most of those observations were specific to HCC but it made me begin to wonder if this would be consistent with other so called "entry level" clubs. I've been reading many threads trying to education myself but frankly if this was going to be consistent with other clubs then I'd save myself some time and just move on.

06-09-2008, 11:21 AM	#8
LTTravel Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,020 Club: ER, HCC Corporate, DHH Lite, Bud Lite (A few too many)	Re: Expectations with "Entry level DC's" I think it depends on what your expectations are. HCC can offer you everything but some of the services are a la carte. But even the basics are excellent in my experience. I have a corporate membership and give away weeks to my employees and colleagues. I can give you a quick rundown of their experiences: 1. Cabo, Chief of Surgery, loved it. No problems 2. Cabo, Nurse, loved it so much she bought a timeshare next door (I was going to kill her) 3. Cabo, Office Employees, loved it, bugging me to give them another week. 4. Punta Mita, Surgeon, used to 4-Seasons type resorts. Loved it. Wants to go again next year. No issues at all. 5. Hilton Head. Office manager. Loved the home and accomodations. Only issue was pine needles in the pool. (not much you can do about it as they fell off the trees constantly). A little drive to the beach but not an issue. 6. Turks and Caicos, Physician Assistant, a wedding gift for her honeymoon. loved it. Only issue was that she fell asleep on the beach and lost her Ipod to the Carribean when a wave hit her. 7. Deer Valley, myself. The unit was newly remodeled, in excellent shape. I personally didn't love it because I felt it was too dark with too much wood (even on the ceilings, making the ceilings look low). The only issue was one of the three cable boxes didn't work and was fixed while I was there. They offered to refund me the days the cable box was not working. 8. NYC. myself, I was one of the first to check into the unit. I felt the unit was small but what I expected. Brand new and a very nice unit. The only issue was that one of the TV's was not connected to cable(Time Warner had come in and connected one of the TV's but forgot to connect the other- usual problem with them in NYC). They offered to refund the days to me. 9. Stowe, surgeon. Loved the unit, went up to relax by himself, had a great time playing golf, out to eat. No problems at all with the unit 10. Stowe, Cardiologist and family. Couldn't believe how nice the unit was. Were going to stay at the Equinox is a single room with 4 people and I noticed Stowe was available and gave it to them. They cancelled the Equinox and loved the home, the space, the service, etc. Were able to get restaurant reservations, side trips and hiking with the HCC concierge services and loved it. If they hadn't just bought a week at Marriott Aruba, would have probably joined, but instead will probably bug me for another weekend or week. 11. LaCosta. I have people in the office fighting for this week. 12. OBX- I'll let you know With ER I have had issues with missing salt and pepper shakers (In the Ritz!), Phones not working, a hot tub that was not hot enough, etc. so there are issues everywhere, but they are promptly taken care of (never offered a refund of the days from ER for the missing salt and pepper shaker) . I guess sometimes I like being met by a concierge and shown around the property(As long as I have enough cash to pass around to everyone helping with the bags, and trying to figure out how much I will leave the concierge at the end of the trip) and other times I don't want to be bothered and prefer just going in myself. I Know what to expect and HCC and ER have both delivered an excellent product.

06-09-2008, 09:26 PM	#10
willmyclubmakeit Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 167 Club: UE Signature	Re: Expectations with "Entry level DC's" The no tipping policy will be new to us as former UR side where we felt obligated to tip the concierges and they deserved it. They made sure everything was in tip top shape and any minor issues we would face would be resolved immediately. The local concierges are most helpful and its a fine line whether you want to see them often or just be on call. However, they are there to make things easier for us and provide local advice and they have done that admirably. They are key to the service and worry free vacations in our opinion.

06-09-2008, 09:37 PM	#11
Kagehitokiri Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,620	Re: Expectations with "Entry level DC's" so UE has made PE's non-tipping policy standard?

06-09-2008, 09:47 PM	#12
willmyclubmakeit Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 167 Club: UE Signature	Re: Expectations with "Entry level DC's" yes according to the newsletter that was distributed last week.

06-10-2008, 02:55 AM	#14
rwhaugan Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 24	Re: Expectations with "Entry level DC's" LT I don't want to get off topic, but why would you join more than one club? It seems as though a person would simply add more time to their existing club. What did you want to be different, did the new club meet those expectations, and how, in general, are the two clubs different.

06-10-2008, 03:08 AM	#15
Kagehitokiri Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,620	Re: Expectations with "Entry level DC's" a number of posters here belong to multiple clubs. personally, i see DCs as only a part of a luxury travel portfolio. (the only 'ownership' component for myself.) "more time" also kind of depends on the club. for example lusso offers unlimited use, and solstice offers unlimited space available use. and IMHO the question is fully on topic, as there are posters here who belong to multiple "entry level" clubs, or an "entry level" club and a higher end club.