PerryM

WorldMark IS a club! It is no different than a golf club.

It has a Board of Directors that the members elect to represent them.

WorldMark owns 5,000 condos worth $1B (debt free), and annual operating budget of $180M, 300,000 members and not ONE employee that works for WM - it's all contracted out.

This is the very definition of a club.

That's what I'm saying - WM is so close to a DC that just a sentence change here and there in the founding documents would have it in the DC industry.

Right now the developer, Wyndham, buys existing condos and turns them over to WM 100% debt free and ready for us members to instantly use. They, in return, get WM credits to sell from WM.

__________________
Forget global warming - we need to worry about global cooling - more. Everyone start your cars - quick!

Perry

Kagehitokiri

would you agree with the following statement?

"I (PerryM) understand, better than the current managers/owners of DCs, what the members of those DCs want."

Desties

That future is actually now, as members -- and in most cases even prospective members -- can already request a club's audited financials.

I can see some of the timeshare big boys coming in, but it can't be with the same timeshare mindset (of swallowing down the initial deposit -- leaving the timeshare owner to resell for pennies or quarters on the dollar). They'll come when the market is established enough to be worth their while. They'll come with thick Rolodexes to upmarket their existing members. I just hope they don't come with the cookie cutter mindset of buying dozens of identical properties to make it up in volume, because the initial charm of a club is that you know the exact home that you'll be getting at, and that it's typically unique.

That may change with the growing girth of the industry. ER already has to buy in bulk. Still, I think timeshares will come in with the wrong attitude. They'll want to charge for concierge services of stocking fridges with grocery orders (above the actual cost of the groceries) or create upsell opportunities in the homes. I'm looking forward to that event for industry validaiton but NOT for what it will add to the industry.

PerryM

You know statistics are in the eye of the beholder.

I'd agree with actual membership numbers. Add up the members in the above DC's and divide by the total DC membership. And then the definition of "Equity" is subject to debate; take HCC as an example of a slippery definition used to prove a shaky point.

I don't see where putting your words in my mouth move this discussion forward. I have my opinion of the DC industry and other's have theirs. I don't try to impose my opinions on them.

I am simply chatting in a chat room, mine is just my opinion and I don't pretend it is superior to anyone else, I certainly don't put words in their mouth.

__________________
Forget global warming - we need to worry about global cooling - more. Everyone start your cars - quick!

Perry

PerryM

Who better to sell fractional ownership than timeshare salesreps? If you buy Disney you can sell it tomorrow for 95% of what you bought it for today. Marriott is 40% and Marriotts appreciate 5% per year so break even is just 8 years away.

Most DCs offer an instant 20% loss with a 3 in/1 out arrangement.

My WorldMark in SouthShore Lake Tahoe, and most WMs, allows me to call ahead and have the fridge stocked with groceries.

As much as DC members might find it annoying timeshares and especially the upper end are DC's in disguise. Sure they aren't nestled back in a subdivision but most of the timeshare folks want the lazy rivers for the grand kids and exchanging usage among 3,000 other timeshare resorts feels good.

The upper end DCs with their huge entrance fees and high MFs is different but like I've said that's not where the big money made in DCs will come from - its the $80k per week timeshare folks who will plunk out the money if DCs grow up and provide a similar product in terms of protections.

__________________
Forget global warming - we need to worry about global cooling - more. Everyone start your cars - quick!

Perry

Kagehitokiri

VS

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PerryM

Well, later this week I’ll dust off my DC Point document and submit here for you guys to look at.

__________________
Forget global warming - we need to worry about global cooling - more. Everyone start your cars - quick!

Perry

ladavis

Don't do that...someone might take it and run with it! Just go out and start your own DC with that as your platform. Good luck.

PerryM

I'm very concerned with the DC industry - a reason I've not bought a DC membership.

I love the concept of a DC - folks truly buy a part ownership of a condo and form a club to exchange usage. The condos are not built from scratch but are simply bought, brought up to a standard, and then the members put up the money and take all the risk to buy them.

Of course they should be rewarded for taking ALL the risk and get real estate appreciation. That key idea is missing from timeshares.

One day a large management company like Resort Com will realize that there is a brand new market to capture - the DC industry.

These folks do the management details of hundreds of timeshare resorts now and starting a DC from scratch is a weekend chore. They have thousands of customers that can be reached with the click of a mouse to kick-start the DC.

One of the key aspects of any company is realizing and appreciating the "Barrier to entry"; what does it take to start the company and get the first customer. In the case of the DC industry that threshold is a grain of sand in the road.

So there are at least 4 thriving industries that can look for DCs to expand into:

1. The hotel industry
2. The timeshare/fractional industry
3. The management companies that service the timeshare/condo industry
4. VRBO.com like companies

I'm sure there are more and the "Barrier to entry" is simply a 20 page business plan with a 20 page legal document creating the DC over a weekend. I know of no other requirements - not ONE state law to worry about, not ONE regulatory agency anywhere to worry about, not ONE guideline from ANY group to really worry about; simply get a copy of an existing DC founding documents and do a global search and replace and you have a DC.

Another concern that DC founders should face is their first con job. A company that starts up, advertises, and sells $400k memberships only to wake up one day and the crooks ran off with the money and their condos were actually owned by other folks who know nothing of the DC.

With no "Barrier to entry" this will happen one day - selling $400k memberships seems to be done over the phone and slick web sites. Con artists are great at this and I'd challenge anyone to point out any difference in the phone calls, web sites, and slick marketing brochures. Heck a friendly guy would gladly meet you at a condo and inform you that a member is already in the unit and you can't see that unit but there are similar units for display.

What's the difference?

__________________
Forget global warming - we need to worry about global cooling - more. Everyone start your cars - quick!

Perry

3DH

Interestingly enough, I don't need no (ok, any, for you grammar types... but it ruins the sound!) stinkin' points... with LUSSO, I have unlimited use with no need to count days or points.

Perry, in all due respect, leave your timeshare theories at the door, it just messes things up!

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"Boutique" is better! Another extremely satisfied LUSSO member!

pwrshift

It goes deeper than that. In some cases, if a member resigns, in addition to having to wait for his 80% he has to pay for the next year's annual 'dues' or they will be deducted from the 80% or the payment refused. Nice!

Perry .. as the above post shows, the Super Moderators here are vicious...especially if you dare mention the word TIMESHARE which gives them all sleepless nights for some reason. Obviously the 'attitude' here of those committed to DC's doesn't permit open chat discussions easily unless you agree with them...or allow them to put words in your mouth. No wonder there are few 'active' members to this board.

PerryM

I get that same sentiment from a number of DC owners - "We are perfect and timeshares suck".

This is my open letter to the DC industry, which can't hold a candle to the timeshare/fractional industry, that there are better ways to accomplish what all these industries address - partial usage of a condo.

Timeshares do it with thousands of state laws and DCs do it with NO state laws to protect one DC member. That alone should send up the double red and black hurricane flags.

Instead DC members seem to live in a land where everything goes right and nothing is to be worried about. When the founding DC went bankrupt that is another set of hurricane flags to be raised.

To me the DC landscape is littered with hurricane flags that went up and DC members pulled down.


I maybe the only person voicing these concerns and that's just fine with me - I'm doing my little bit to improve the DC industry; it needs a lot of help in my opinion.

And these are just opinions of one person who discovered DCs many years ago, got all excited, and did my due diligence and declined their offers.

__________________
Forget global warming - we need to worry about global cooling - more. Everyone start your cars - quick!

Perry

PerryM

I'd hope for a more conducive environment to discuss DCs but I can't argue with what you say; speaking one's mind on this chat room takes some guts.

__________________
Forget global warming - we need to worry about global cooling - more. Everyone start your cars - quick!

Perry

DC4MS

These forums are "open" to anyone interested in discussing Destination Clubs.

Nobody has a problem with comparing the "reservation" system of an upscale timeshare or fractional to DCs, but nobody here really considers any timeshare to be a viable alternative to joining a Destination Club.

However, I do think the DC industry can learn A LOT from the timeshare industry in terms of growth and scaling of their membership as the DC industry is very young and can learn from other mistakes (includi