kddpac

I second the vote!!

holycow

Here is the calculation using the Halogen Guide's method:

For ER's 10 yrs scenario: $479,900 deposit, 75% refundable, $59,900 annual due

annual cost/nt = (479,900x0.25/10 + 59,900)/60 = $1,198
opp cost/nt = 5% interest generated by 479,900 over 10 yrs/600 = $503
thus, total cost/nt = $1701

One point that should be factored into joining a DC is the risk of losing the deposit via bankruptcy. Renting does not have such a risk.

I'm no fan of TTT but just want to get the calculation right.

DC4MS

I have received about 10 PMs from people that are tired of the TTT thread and posts.

Here is my take:

1. First and foremost, we are a Destination Club forum. We also like to post and discuss interesting alternatives to DC travel in the "rare" (just kidding) situations where a DC member may want to travel to a non-DC location.

2. TTT is an interesting alternative option, but nobody is trading in their DC membership and joining TTT.

3. I agree that TTT is certainly over-zealous (and those are nice words) and I often have a hard time understanding her many points, but she is certainly passionate about her business (like most of us are about DCs). Let's not forget how passionate some timeshare people are.

4. TTT was limited to only one thread (now two) that are specifically dedicated to TTT discussions. I believe that I deleted all other TTT posts on the other forums as I do not feel they are appropriate.

5. Although I was less than one second away from hitting the delete key on TTT user name a week ago, I felt that the concept of a "vacation home exchange" company was valuable, I just wish she would tone it down a bit.

6. My best recommendation is for TTT to start a TTTforums.com discussion group for her 600 property owners (guess) and many customers and invite our users to her forum rather than continue TTT discussions here.

Jack

I currently rent homes on most of my vacations... and have yet to join a DC but I can see the advantages.
1. I am already spending around 20,000+ plus food, activities and so on...
so the money over a long time is not the issue.
What appeals to me is the service aspect.
That I can have my own private 5 star resort for my family and friends.
on top of free services, I spend less per night.

Holiday vacations are great but we usually vacation before christmas and then have a traditional christmas on the 25th. Dragging gifts around is a PAIN!

so really the biggest differences if you already spend the money are
Cost per night
Services
Amenities
Exclusive rights to locations/Homes
Overall Quality
The biggest is:
ease of use.

TradeToTravel

Why do many of the participants in this thread keep talking about me and my company rather than stay on topic? This thread is not about me or TTT. This thread is an inquiry into the pro's and con's of luxury rentals vs. destination clubs.

Can't we have a simple exchange of questions and ideas in this thread rather than me and my company being insulted and lied about when I have not done anything wrong or said anything untrue (except for making honest mistakes, just like we all do). I am learning, as we all are. That's why we participate in these forums...to learn and to figure out the truth...right?

If anyone has anything else they'd like to say about me personally or about TTT, could you please post it in the TTT thread rather than bringing it into this thread? Let's please keep the subjects entirely separate and let's not have this thread turn into a thread about me or about TTT. Here's the link to the last page of the TTT thread for anyone/everyone who has something they'd like to post about me personally or about TTT:

Trade to Travel - Press Release

Until this post, I haven't mentioned TTT in this thread. Not even to defend it when participants in this thread knowingly said untrue things about Trade to Travel like, "TTT is a rental broker and nothing more." The person who made that statement knows very well that TTT's primary focus is trades, not rentals, and he knows that even Bourne called TTT "a good company built from scratch against all odds" on page 13 of the TTT thread.

People in this thread have asked why I haven't yet answered every question asked of me. The answer is that I don't have time to respond to every question in a timely fashion (a LOT of questions get asked of me and I do my best to post as often as I can, but I do have a company to run and a life to live and can't spend all of my time on destinationclubforums. If you'll give me time, I'll respond to as many people's questions as I possibly can.

Tonight or tomorrow I'll get back online to resume our discussion on the subject of this thread.

Thanks and I hope everyone's having a great day.

TarheelTraveler

I'm going to try to not get sucked back into this one. Can this thread not be over yet?

DCTraveler

Good thoughts Jack.

What is interesting in all of this is that the property and services at Suenos that TTT was using in her calculation are way, way above almost all of the Destination Club with people participating in this forum. You should really check that one out. You don't have exclusive rights to the location, but you can rent it for exactly the night you want it (ease of use).

Tedpilot

Remove...

TradeToTravel

Hi, Holycow, your figures sound logical and concise to me. The only factor which you didn't figure in is the $79,000 holiday fee, which is $131/night over 10 years. So, can we all agree on a 10 year figure of $1832/night? This wouldn't include the $19,000 which would allow your family to enjoy ER properties without you there, but that would only be another $31/night, bringing the total to $1863 if one chooses that option.

Would anyone be opposed to using the $1832/night figure for the purposes of our discussion?

TarheelTraveler

TTT - There are many assumptions that go into these figures, which should be applied/adjusted by the person trying to make the decision, so I don't think that you can use a set number in these discussions. For example, for me, I wouldn't pay $79,000 for a holiday plan, and I wouldn't be sending guests unaccompanied by me or my wife, so I wouldn't pay for that fee either, so I don't think you can come up with a standard.

This is particularly the case since IMHO it is clear that your motivation is to try to drive up the cost of your competitor (i.e., DCs), and I believe based on past posts that your next post will talk about some great rentals that you were able to find for less than whatever number is "agreed to."

If you're really going to make some sort of fair comparison versus a sales pitch, I would suggest taking the average cost per night illustrated by Halogen, DC4MS, and Sherpa for all clubs in a particular value range (rather than the most expensive club using the cost per night methodogy providing the highest cost per night (TTT or Halogen)). Then I would look at the rental costs in 5 to 10 fairly representative developments where both DC homes and rental villas are readily available and have comparables (not potentially the worst DC value like Las Vegas which you threw out earlier), and see what you get. You'd also have to build in increases for the rental costs, because I believe Halogen, DC4MS and Sherpa all include that on the DC side. Obviously, this would take a lot of work, but otherwise, any numbers comparison is really meaningless as a general matter. If you're not going to do that (and I suspect you wouldn't because it would probably undermine the TTT style of debate), it seems we should focus on the non-cost pros and cons of DCs versus rentals. If people want to do a numbers comparison, let them do it on their own for the destinations that they frequent using the easy to use spreadsheets that have been put together.

TradeToTravel

Hi, Jack, when you've rented properties for $20k, which rental agencies have you used? Where have you rented $20k properties and what were they like?

Also, when you say, "I can have my own private 5 star resort for my family and friends on top of free services, I spend less per night." Since you're not a member of a destination club, what are you basing that statement upon? What services can a destination club provide which luxury rental agencies like LaCure and Wimco cannot?

Destination clubs have established presences in many destinations, and they have NOT established presences in MANY destinations (especially outside the U.S.). There are luxury vacation rental agencies in ALL of the world's major destinations and in many of the world's most remote locations. While destination clubs are fairly new to the luxury travel scene, luxury rentals have been catering to the world's wealthiest and most famous for ages and they are delighted to provide anything/everything your heart could desire.

I'd say that the #1 reason to rent luxury properties vs. membership in destination clubs is FREEDOM. Freedom to go wherever you want to go, whenever you want to go there, and stay as long as you'd like.

TarheelTraveler

To me, the #1 and only reason to rent a villa over a DC membership is to go to a location that is not covered by the DC. If I do want to go outside of my base of great locations and resorts, I can always do that and take my chances.

I'm not sure what you mean by FREEDOM to go whenever you want to go and stay as long as you like, as villa rentals have, for example, limited holiday availability just like a DC (and if you can find it, you'll spend a lot more money for that holiday availability unlike a DC). The best villas in the best locations and resorts are in my experience more booked than the DC properties when you look at prime seasons.

McFads

Somehow I made it through the 3 pages of posts. Very interesting comments and entertaining banter. As a potential customer that has looked at DC's closely yet failed to make any decisions (and probably won't for a few more years), I'd have to say that cost is not the primary benefit in choosing a DC. That's not to say cost isn't a factor, but it's not a determining factor.

It would be like conducting a cost analysis on a country club membership. Golf will typically be cheaper by the round at the munis and resorts (with a few exceptions) but it's the intangible (and tangible) benefits of the membership that are so appealing. For instance:
- being with like people
- access to a private club
- the 'badge' value of being a member
- access to something I'm passionate about
- reciprocal play
- entire family can enjoy


That being said I have several friends that are (wealthy) golf enthusiasts that choose not to join a country club because they want a greater choice and flexibility. I know this isn't apples to apples because most DCs have excellent selections but I thought I'd present the analogy.

TradeToTravel

Hi, Jack, are you not going to answer?

TradeToTravel

Since Jack is apparently not going to answer, can anyone tell me what services destination clubs provide which luxury rental agencies like LaCure and Wimco cannot?