vineyarder

OTOH, the converse can also be true; in many clubs the lower-priced 'mini' memberships get little or no access to holiday bookings, so 3 'mini' members may have zero access to holiday bookings, increasing holiday availability for 'full' members... This is the situation with HCC and UR. IIRC, Lusso has only one class of membership, so a moot issue there. PE is primarily one class of membership, except for a very small number of 'preview members', who do not have the ability to book holidays, so like HCC and UR, these 'mini' memberships increase availability for full members...

LTTravel

Though it is not holidays where peak demand is. A member with a mini membership is not going to book a mountain destination in "Mud Season". or utilize a space available booking just because they have a few more days to blow.
For example, there are some ER members with 60 days per year and can barely utilize them. They will book a weekend in Florida over the summer just to use the days up and still have some days left over. I doubt a person with 15 day membership will do that or have any days left over at the end of the year.

catpak1960

Thanks for talking about the potential difficulties with the tiered memberships. I was having trouble understanding how those could be an issue if you weren't in one of the top tiers. I am also just still curious why NeilgoBlue said to wait two weeks. Are there any more rumblings of mergers in the industsry??

DC4MS

Yes, there will be a major announcement soon. Unfortunately, NDAs prevent this announcement from being made. My only hint is that is does not involve Ultimate Resort.

LTTravel

let's see, the major players are ER, UR, PE, Quintess, HCC in terms of number of members
second tier in number of members
Portofino, Lusso, Bellehavens, maybe Crescendo. I am leaving out the international clubs.

so if it is not UR, it is also not PE. Could it be HCC, but with which other club other than PE? Could it be Quintess and Lusso- maybe. Could it be ER and Quintess-maybe. or just Bellehavens and Crescendo.

I guess we'll keep guessing.

LTTravel

Though not related to Quintess or Lusso, The availability at DHH is amazing!

Kagehitokiri

merger >
Bellehavens - Lusso Merger?????

quintess/ER are not like UR/HCC in terms of holiday use

ER Traveler

I beg to differ regarding ER availability LTTravel. I have 60 days and have been able to use every single day since I joined in '03 and have never just booked in a mud season or off season just to use up days. I always travel at least 2 holidays per year and have school-aged children. The new cancellation watch system has also been a huge plus and has allowed some amazing travel opportunities. The key is just to plan well in advance the trips you really want to take and relax about the rest because it always works out.

That said, I agree that you should look at the total number of days allowed by all members at a multi-tiered club to compare with a non-tiered club but to compare with Lusso which has unlimited use then you'll need some info from the club as to the average number of days booked per member. Then you can compare occupancy rates. Can any Lusso members comment on that along with what's the max number of days one could possible travel?

Kagehitokiri

from departures article

ER Traveler, can you address your ability to get first choice/etc?

LTTravel

I think that you would have to agree that if one were to review the data, I know it is available, but they just won't give it to you, the percentage of unutilized days for a member with 60 days per year is higher than one with 15 days per year. Plus, the member with 60 days per year, because of the luxury of so many vacation days, tends to try different destinations, not just the most popular. I am sure that when Anguilla becomes available or Arrabelle in Vail becomes available, just as high a percentage of members with 15 days per year will enter the lottery as those with 60 days per year, and the odds of winning are the same for either member. Therefore, my point is, the number of members is more important than the number of member equivalents.

ER Traveler

The number of annual days available to book by members as a percentage of total property days would give a good forecast of maximum occupancy possible. That could then be compared between clubs but at a club like Lusso you would only have historical data to rely on and I'm not sure they would release that info. Also, the newer clubs tend to have better availability so it still may not make for a fair comparison if you're planning to stay with a club long term.

I'm sure the 15 day members use 99% of their days and not all 45 - 60 day members use all their days but it's not always because they can't find an available destination. Many members have never planned to use all their days, just most of them.

In terms of my experience at ER, I do know there are members who complain about availability, holidays, fairness, etc., but some of those people also tend to be the least flexible and can have unrealistic expectations. Many of them forget how difficult it can be to book Christmas or Thanksgiving at a top tier hotel resort like FS Hualalai or Maui - it has to be done a year in advance. Those same members also tend to be the most vocal and can contribute to a negative impression of the club. Perhaps the destination club model is really not suitable for some people who have joined if they can't plan ahead or have some flexibility. Believe me, there are many ecstatic members of the club and I'm not unique in being able to use all my days and go to my top choice destinations.


The fact that we can plan 2 years ahead of time is a big plus at ER. I'll plan my top choice trips that far in advance and then fill in with new releases or cancellations. The side benefit of that 2 year window is that some reservations (unofficially 40%) are cancelled and therefore the top destinations still become available frequently. I'm lucky that my favorite beach destinations are within 5 hours and there's almost always availability. I've been to almost all the ER destinations (except mountain) so I also know there's no rush if I don't happen to get my top choice, I'll get there sooner or later.

I think I've gotten off the subject of Quintess vs Lusso but I hope my comments add some perspective.

3DH

Hi ER Traveler! To comment on your inquiry, as far as the maximum number of days -- it would be "possible" to travel every month (or more often...) should you wish and be able to fit it into your own schedule. The reservation rules say that not more than 35 days may be booked or held at any one time through a combination of no more than 4 separate reservations ("Standard"). In addition to those days, which must be booked within 365 days of travel, 2 reservations of not more than 14 days, combined, may be booked from 366 to 730 days from travel ("Advanced"). Reservations made within 15 days of travel ("Short Notice") may be made without regard to the above rules, as they don't count toward the aforementioned situations.

When one of those original 4 "standard" reservations is commenced, another reservation may be booked, essentially allowing a "leap-frog" type of booking... so, conceivably, one could travel as often as they wished. That said, I believe I recall seeing that the average member travels between 28 and 40 days per year.

__________________
"Boutique" is better! Another extremely satisfied LUSSO member!

LTTravel

ER Traveler

I agree that availabilty at ER is MUCH better than has been stated by some members and non members. It is funny how an ER member (or non member)can complain that they cannot get Tuscany or Florence or Kiawah or the Villa at Montage whenever they want when they have 35 other destinations to chose from, most of the time, more than any other destination club (true, the UR/PE merger will have more total destinations, but not within any one club level) ER members used to complain that they couldn't get Costa Rica or Grand Cayman, destinations which are almost always available now and availablity at Cabo and Puerto Vallarta, Scotsdale and most of Florida are almost guaranteed. I think that they think that if they don't get their first or second choice, there are no other options. ER is a great club.
But by your last comments, I think that you are agreeing that "member equivalent" is not the same as "equivalent member". Lusso, with only one membership level, has a more accurate measure of member to property ratio. In Clubs with tiered memberships, "member equivalents" is not an accurate method of determining member to property ratio.

TarheelTraveler

From my perspective, Lusso is essentially spending money to buy houses in front of demand, and ER is growing so quickly that it is buying houses as fast as it can to catch up to demand. As a result and assuming the unlimited reservations (with some restrictions) doesn't eat too much into availability, Lusso is naturally going to have better availability. However, it seems like that has to be an expensive proposition for Lusso.

LTTravel

I am not sure how far ahead of the curve they are. They now have about 125 members and 24 homes or >5:1.
The Costa Rica and Breckenridge homes will not be available for some time. The Panama homes are supposed to be available this year. But that does not put them way ahead of the curve, so if availability is good now, there is no reason to not expect good later.

puffpuff

After 5 years, the DC industry recognized that the right balance between economics ( and thus long term survival) and customer satisfaction dictates an occupancy rate of 60-70% . This number is very general indeed and is somewhat misleading because mountain properties are generally booked 90% during ski season and sit quite empty the rest of the year. What I have learned in reality is that sooner or later, if any club is going to be around, you need to be prepared for extreme tightness during holidays (requiring 1-2 years reservation ) and 6 months out planning for the rest of the time to have reasonable ( 70% or more ) certainty of getting what you want. clubs in the early phase of development may have a 2-3 year window where availability is "fantastic", but this is an anomaly and not the rule. You better hope that this is not going to be case for too long, as no club can survive. UR, ER, Quintess all run about the same %, and if you can plan far, all these clubs are about the same in terms of availability.

If you want lower occupancy rate, more "immediate" availability, you have to sacrifice on the broadness of destinations at this time. The club that fits this is Lusso. Its well worth it for some people. I personally find the number of locations in Lusso quite limiting, but that is me. Some people love it. its a boutique club, and fit a nice niche of members.

If you know what you want, you will know the club to join.

Kagehitokiri