DC4MS

What are "we" chopped liver?

I would welcome anyone from PE (or any Destination Club) to post their membership numbers, new properties, liabilities, etc. on DestinationClubForums.com

One of the reasons I started this website was I wanted something that is unique for Destination Clubs (not PRC, fractions, jets, timeshares) and I am MOSTLY interested in hearing from DC members about their experiences.

This is an "open" forum and everyone is entitled to their "own" opinion. I will only delete or modify a post if it is clearly a false statement or an obvious personal attack on an individual or club.

One great example is the thread about the "capital cost" of membership fees. I try to keep my personal opinion out of all my posts (unless someone specifically asks what I think) and remain objective towards all the clubs.

Desties

You're filet, all the way, my friend.

I just singled out Halogen and Sherpa in that example because they already have the DC guides with the membership breakdowns. It's just a matter of time before they update them, I would imagine, though I don't know if any of them track the year-end metrics over more than the most recent year.

By all means, keep fighting the good fight. If DC4MS becomes the resting place for current membership data, that would be awesome.

I'm all for greater transparency.

Bourne

I do not question PE's net asset test. You CANNOT be a member of DCA without passing one. Infact, the books are pretty much open in front of other members of DCA.

However my comments regarding the membership numbers were based on the following facts...

1. It is common knowledge that PE bough approx 390-400 members into a 1200 member Ultimate Escapes merger. UR had approx 800 members before the merger. According to Halogen Guides, that breakup of 400 members is approx...

Premiere - 217
Platinum - 148
Pinnacle - 26

2. When I did my due diligence in Nov-Dec '06, PE Premiere was around the 175-180 mark. That means PE added a net total of 35-40 new members in the past 18 months.

3. Since the summer of '06 when PE Premiere added four new properties, the only new one has been the Links at NYC. Then again, keep in mind that Charleston is being pulled out i.e. effectively sold.

My analysis is based on what I see reported today and what I was shown by PE a couple of years back. However, you have the latest numbers in front of you that you are rightfully not disclosing.

DC4MS

Thanks...preferably from The Capital Grille....medium with a side of Bearnaise and a nice martini....one of their signature drinks...the famous Stoli Doli martini served chilled.

The Stoli Doli at the Capital Grille is on the bar where you will see a huge glass container filled with "jet-fresh" (meaning they're flown in the day they're picked) Dole pineapples, to which is added many, many fluid ounces of Stoli vodka. This mixture marinates for five to seven days and tis then ready. The resulting nectar is served chilled in a cocktail glass.....one word....Awesome!

Bourne

Nope...

foie gras

Kagehitokiri

no problem as long as youre trained and within 20 feet

Capital Grille & foie gras

vodka martini

DC4MS has done some great interviews, and posted a bunch of spreadsheets recently for those who are into that sort of thing. :thumbsup:

im also trying to keep the membership numbers sticky reasonably up to date, with the established clubs at least.

DCTraveler

Actually, you might be surprised with PE. I was told at one point that their research has shown little to no correlation between the decision to join Premiere, Platinum or Pinnacle and the net worth or income of the individual. It's more of a lifestyle decision, how important travel is to you, and how many people you plan to regularly accommodate.

So, what this leads to is members trying Premiere or a 14 day Preview plan and then frequently trading "up" to Platinum or Pinnacle. This is why the Premiere membership numbers are static. I would also think that the competition of HCC is playing somewhat of a role as well.

I don't know if that is the case with HCC, as members are not looking to trade up in terms of value of home, only potentially number of days. Plus, HCC's significantly lower prices for the 7/15 day plans might put at least some of their membership base in a slightly different demographic than the $100k, $200k, $300k crowd, especially those really smart folks who got in more than 1 year ago when they were offering bargain basement pricing. The June 1 pricing increase is getting closer to where PE Premiere pricing was 2 years ago.

TravelGuy

Wow! I just spent several days traveling from the beautiful beaches of Hilton Head Island back to the rainy Northeast and what do I find when I fire-up the internet machine today?? I find TravelGuy getting hammered for trying to get the current scoop on PE.

I have a little time before the upcoming trip to Vegas for two weeks so I'll clump some responses together here:

Noted. Sorry for the humor. I will curtail all humor from this point forward so we can all have a dry and serious discussion on the pros and cons of Destination Clubs and their related financial structure.

And since you "haven’t been around here much", I’ll restrain myself from the flamingly written beat-down that I’d normally give to a response such as yours.

I’m aware that Rich Keith is head of the DCA. (From my original post – “PE – I can’t find anything about PE completing a Net Asset Test even though their President is head of the DCA”). That is exactly my point! And you also make MY point about the financials. They have to complete them for the merger, so why the delay?

It IS very true for me at my real job!

I don’t joke about capital and the credit markets. And we’ve already had the discussion on the humor thing.

As I said, I’m in the rainy Northeast which is apparently the land of overflowing credit and capital.

Sigh. I can’t believe that you’re quoting CNBC rhetoric, Bernake’s vernacular, brokerage conference calls (are you kidding me?), and the bloated balance sheets of public financial institutions as the foundation for your theory of the status of the current capital markets.

I don’t have time for a tutorial on commercial finance but here are several quickies:
1) Credit scores have very little to do with commercial credit.
2) Many multiple leveraged entities (with good credit) are having no problem getting capital.
3) Credit is always “complicated”. Better for those of us who understand how to manipulate the capital markets.
4) Great credit does not need a “committee” for approval. Great credit deals are processed by individuals at the financial entity that have the personal approval power of millions. Committees are used to cover one’s butt for a not-so-great credit deal..
And so on …

As I said before, liquidity is no longer a problem and financial institutions are desperate to provide credit to entities that are credit worthy. No loans = no revenue = no bonuses for the execs!

I do this for a living so it’s extremely boring to discuss. Enough.

And yes, Destination Club financing is unusual but good credit is good credit! Capital always finds a home. Other DCs continue to finance and purchase new properties, so why not PE?

You better have more juice than this if you’re going to call me out by saying that my statement on credit “is not even close to true“!

The point I was making is that HCC has not experienced this phenomenon of membership cancellations that you describe. And the waiting time for refunds at PE indicates that the cancellation waiting list MAY be long. I don’t see where you address that disparity.


More CNBC rhetoric on the consumer. By the way, most of the companies you list are not really “high end” in that they cater exclusively to high net worth individuals.

And once again, you do not address the issue that other DCs from HCC to ER are still adding new members at a great clip while PE appears to have very slowed growth since even BEFORE the merger announcement.


Ummm … the part where you laughed … that was the humor you said you were unsure about at the beginning of your post.

Excuse me but I don’t see where I’m completely wrong about anything. Speculating on some PE issues due to lack of info, maybe. But that’s the whole point of this thread!

(Now that was nice, wasn’t it?)

TravelGuy

First about the “RANT” issue. On other forums (starts with “T”, ends with “G”) I’ve seen posters get a week long suspension for using that word in relation to another forum poster. And how can this be an “ATTACK” against PE when I say that my statements are based on anecdotal evidence, are my opinions and are conclusions based on the limited facts that I can get hold of. I even bracket my post with these statements so no one misses them. And then I ASK FOR BETTER FACTUAL INFO from other forum members!! How is this an attack when I state that I’m searching for the facts because I don’t know them?

He DID contact them! They DID NOT satisfactorily address each of his concerns!

I contacted PE numerous times in the past, starting with my initial consideration of a Destination Club membership. During that initial discussion with PE, I became very disillusioned with their sales approach. They tried to discredit High Country Club and Endless Resorts. They went so far as to explain why the HCC biz plan would make the company fail within 12 months. I learned from my HCC due diligence that the PE explanation of the HCC biz plan was not even close (and HCC may now be the stronger club more than 18 months later). I thought that I would get quicker, more honest answers on this forum, without having to endure endless sales talk from the PE sales reps.

The point of the post was to get feedback from PE members and other forum members who may have inside info on PE. I am considering PE as one of several DCs for a second membership.

I’m concerned about the secrecy of PE on what should be open, even touted, items like the Net Asset Test. High Country Club not only passes the DCA test with a higher percentage of available net assets than required, they publicize the audited statement of the test itself. If PE members are not willing, or able, to relate relatively benign information (such as the Net Asset Test) because of restrictions set by PE, then I have no expectation that PE would give that information to non-members such as me.

I don't expect PE members to tell us what's in the 2007 audited financials, but I would expect that there is no harm in letting us know that at least those financials exist. A typical red flag of a biz entity with cash flow problems and/or other fundamental issues is delayed financials. The fact that a potential merger is imminent would make it more of a priority for a biz to have their financial information in order for a prospective merger/bail-out partner and should not be the cause for delay.

I also have concerns by feedback I've received off-forum and I wanted to get the straight answers. For some reason, it seems like some PE members are reluctant to do so. By contrast, HCC members are more than willing to offer their info and insights when questioned on this forum.

TravelGuy

Now you have me really confused about humor with your “love the humor and approach” line.

How was this an “attack” on PE when I start and end my post with the following statements?

One again, I’m trying to be nice here. But give a TravelGuy a break, will ya’!

TravelGuy

Kage,

Good words on differentiating between opinion and fact.

Does this mean that I can be extremely aggressive now that I've sworn off humor in my posts? If so, my posts will certainly be shorter and take less time to create!

TravelGuy

No need to fight. I'm NICE now! TG may be cool but is now humorless.

THANK-YOU!

NOW we are getting somewhere. I'd much prefer if someone actually saw the statement of the audited test from the accountants. And I am somewhat surprised that they could complete a full GAAP audited statement and the DCA test by February? However, I'll take you at your word that PE has a completed DCA test.

I just read your post and realized there was a typo in my post. You have "failure" listed because I posted that "I will not stop referring to the merger as a failure" when I meant to say "I WILL stop referring to the merger as a failure" and just call it a bail-out. I've changed the original post. My bad.

I'm more than happy to kill the "bail-out" should someone have eviden