DCTraveler

To be fair to PE their policy is pretty simple with the 3 in 1 out ratio -- when they get the 3 memberships (yes, equivalents) they refund your money within 30 days. Just because HCC has no one on the waiting list doesn't mean you can get your membership deposit refund when 2 members join (they have a 2:1 versus a 3:1 ratio). Once they have to have 2 full membership equivalents (which could be like 12 of the 1 week people) I believe you have to wait until the end of your membership year, so you could actually have to stay in 1-11 more months. This is good in some ways because you can complete your travel reservations, but it really could take longer to redeem a HCC membership. The advantage of the HCC process, is that you have a better idea of when you will be redeemed (end of your membership year), rather than a vague 3-6 months -- what do you do about club usage... do you stop completely rather than have airline tickets to places you are no longer going, do you book 5,6,7,8 months out a bet that it takes longer. I'm not really sure.

TravelGuy

O' ye of little faith in TravelGuy!

As you know, Travelguy previously made some minor inferences that Charleston was not a travel location to his liking.

An example:

This was followed by some heckling by fellow forum posters.

Examples:

And then, in a moment of weakness, TravelGuy offered the following retraction of his previous slams, er "thoughts", on Charleston:

And then a mere week after TravelGuy's post .......... PE announces the closing of the Charleston Property!!
(where's the dancing banana icon when you need it?)

Coincidence?? I think Not!!

Now that TravelGuy has been vindicated for this disparagement of Charleston, please note the following statement:

TravelGuy wishes to fully and totally retract his previous retraction of his TravelStatements about Charleston!

Further news of the announced development of the new Westgate developed Charleston Planet Hollywood Resort and Casino and later proclamation by a noted timeshare op-ed contributor as this being the "Best Timeshare Ever" have not changed TravelGuy's opinion of Charleston.


The final word - Is it bad that TravelGuy is now referring to himself in the third person? Maybe something to discuss in TravelTherapy ...

Bourne

There are some misstatements in this post. Here is what the HCC policy states...

1. At this very moment, there is no member on HCC's exit list.

2. HCC has a 2:1 exit policy for equivalent memberships. A companion member(7day) can exit as soon as two companion(7Day) members or one Associate(15 day) member joins. My personal contract states that one Private/Corporate member or two Affiliate members have to join for me to exit. Once the 2:1 clause is satisfied, the deposit money minus 20% will be returned within 30 days.

3. This situation has not happened yet with HCC given the growth. In a scenario where new members do not join to fulfill the 2:1 clause, the current member on the waiting list is liable for dues limited to the current membership year. Beyond that, the dues stop and you wait for new memebrs to join so that the deposit can be returned.

4. In case where the 2:1 clause is fulfilled, a member can choose to have the remaining membership year's dues withheld from the deposit and have the ability to use all nights for that membership year.

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The Nile is a river in Egypt......

Bourne

IMHO,

PE's policy may be similar to HCC barring the 3:1 exit clause.

The quoted 3-6 month period may be a realistic timeline that the management may have given the member based on their expectation of new members joining the PE Premiere club.

To PE management's credit, they communicated the right information to the member. For me that is a positive. I do not care if the news is good or bad. Just give me the truth.

__________________
The Nile is a river in Egypt......

Kagehitokiri

TravelGuy, the problem is that is kind of an "inside joke" because the zoning dispute had been going on for a very long time. (since PE first acquired?)
for those who are unaware - that dispute is why the property will no longer be available after june 2. http://www.destinationclubforums.com...eston-714.html

vineyarder

And, of course, it had been reported in another thread on this forum (10 days BEFORE TravelGuy's original post) that Charleston would be going offline as of June 2 2008:

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*************
Living in a vacuum sucks!

TravelGuy

Kage & Viney,

Sigh ... you guys are really becoming too serious.

Yeah, I know that PE was closing the Charleston location which is why I included the Charleston statements in the original post of this thread. Just trying to add to the spice of life!

As a side note, I understand that the city of Charleston, WV has NO zoning issues with Destination Clubs. Possibly an alternative location for the PE "Charleston" home??

Now on to official TravelGuy Business:

Based on new killjoy information, TravelGuy is Officially Retracting his previous Official TravelGuy Retraction to his Retraction on his Charleston Retraction! For the record, TravelGuy fully endorses PE's plans to shutter the Charleston property.

However, TravelGuy still stands by his comments on the PE Reynolds Plantation property.

TravelGuy

Agreed. This is my understanding of the HCC policy and how I read the contract also.

Maybe the main issue is that HCC has such momentum with new memberships that the 2:1 clause is of no consequence. The anecdotal evidence suggests that PE does not have new member momentum and thus the 3:1 PE clause poses a significant restriction to membership refunds.

TravelGuy

I'm fast finding reasons NOT to consider PE as an option for my SECOND DC MEMBERSHIP. The following are conclusions I'm drawing based upon input from various sources. Anyone with FACTUAL knowledge to the contrary is welcome to help me with my fact finding by posting:

New Properties
Not nearly enough, even with the far-fetched reciprocity thing, UNLESS PE is not adding many members. This may be the case as the following info shows.

Destination Club Association Net Asset Test
I can't find any evidence that PE has completed an audited DCA Net Asset Test. I can only assume that they would make it very public IF they had the assets to be able to pass the test. ALSO ALARMING is the suggestion that they may not have a completed audited financial statement for last year. None of this, if true, bodes well for PEs financial condition.

Member Resignation List
I am now aware of TWO PE members that are waiting for refunds from the club. One is STILL waiting and the other is told that he will get his deposit back at the end of June after waiting for months. I suggest that this means that either PE is out of cash, is attempting to stall the exodus of members, is adding few new members or needs the PE/UR merger to happen quickly to fund these refunds. (see below).

The Failure of “The Merger”
Based on my limited recon on this multi-convoluted transaction, I will stop referring to it as a "failure" BUT I will also stop referring to it as a "Merger". MY understanding is that the BAIL-OUT is going to happen VERY SOON. The only reason I have seen stated that the "bail-out" took so long is of the financial nature. As one who plays in the financial, commercial real-estate, and credit markets everyday ... I don't buy that this bail-out is a good credit risk that was delayed because of the current condition of the credit markets. Those in the know will tell you that the financial institutions are desperate to generate revenue with low-risk lending and are begging those investors with good credit to borrow capital. I am very wary of the rational for the delay of this transaction. I believe this may be a "bail-out" due to signs of poor cash flow of at least PE (see above). I know nothing about UR so I assume that the "bail-out" will provide greater liquidity for at least PE.

New PE Members
Has anyone heard any numbers from PE on new members this year? And does anyone know how many members are currently on the resignation list? (FYI - If they say less than two I suggest they may not be truthful)

Once again, the above is info gathered by me and my business opinions which are based upon that info. This is certainly subject to change if any one has better factual info.

In the interim, I'm keeping my distance from PE as I believe (IMHO) there are much better DC options out there.

Bourne

Definitely PE Premiere.

The growth of the specific club has slowed down considerably in the past year or two for the following reasons...
1. HCC cut into the market with a cheaper product.
2. The management rolled out PE Pinnacle around the same time and is more agressively marketing Platinum and Pinnacle product.

__________________
The Nile is a river in Egypt......

LTTravel

That's why I think that except for the first year, the refund of all DC's should be less than 100%. People tend to panic without adequate information, or change their minds and want to try another club. There will be times when there will be rapid growth and times when growth will slow. If you give 100% refund, people will tend to want to get out but with a penalty, they will hang on. When you talk to ER, they always say that they have to have a non refundable portion of the membership fee, partly for this reason. I think that people think more of the non refundable portion of the membership fee than they think about the lost opportunity cost of the deposit. The only club that may buck this trend (at least for now) is Lusso.

DestiFan

I haven't been around here much, so I can't tell what is humor and what is serious. So I will treat the above post as serious - unless told otherwise.

1) I am sure PE passes the net asset test since their CEO is President of the Association that initiated the test in the first place. In addition, the Company has to have completed their audit, as they cannot close the transaction without it.

2)The following statement is not even close to true.

"As one who plays in the financial, commercial real-estate, and credit markets everyday ... I don't buy that this bail-out is a good credit risk that was delayed because of the current condition of the credit markets. Those in the know will tell you that the financial institutions are desperate to generate revenue with low-risk lending and are begging those investors with good credit to borrow capital."

Seriously? Where are you living these days? First, banks are looking to shed credits during this period of time, not gather them. This is the single hardest access credit in the last 50 years. Don't bellieve me? Read Bernake's speech from Monday, listen to one of the last 20 bank or brokerage conference calls, or go look at a balance sheet of any banking institution - they are all raising non-performing loans, charging off more, earning less margin and reducing exposure to one primary area - REAL ESTATE. The terms of residential real estate loans have changed so dramatically in the past 12 months that wealthy individuals with 750 Ficos and no leverage are getting much worse terms on ONE home purchase then they were a year ago, let alone a multiple homes throughout the world in different locations with different rules governing each location. Oh by the way, these homes are backed by real estate values that have been decreasing by 10-15%. And finally, Destination Club cash flows come from Consumers - and that is not a great thing to be lending to either right now. Lenders are pulling loans backed by Casinos, Radio Towers, etc - and they are itching to lend to a Destination Club? This is a very complicated credit and I have been surprised their lender, CapitalSource, would do the deal at all in this environment. That being said, they are lending to the deal - which means the financials must be rock solid. How do I know that? Because to make it through credit committee at a public company lending institution (backed by residential real estate) is a miracle - so the deal must be decent on paper and the terms must be tough - hence the delay in my opinion.

3)Regarding cancelations...Again, I am very surprised there have not been more at PE and HCC. The lower priced memberships are the most vulnerable in a time like this, not the ER, Quintess, Lusso, etc. You don't think people in CA, AZ, NV and FL are rethinking their Destination Club membership when the average home in these markets is down over 20% and many have Home Equity lines of credit? Times are tough for those folks - no matter how much money they make, they probably are close to underwater in their house and can't refinance it. I would be pulling the rip cord on my DC membership as well if that was the case.

4)Lastly, I know PE had great sign-ups last year, but they have stalled this year as the merger has drawn out. People want to see what they are getting before they buy, and frankly, I don't blame them. But make no mistake, the consumer environment is struggling and that has made it hard for all consumer discretionary spend companies. I used to laugh when reading this board and I heard people say that the DC consumer was immune to the issues b/c they are High-Net-Worth....really? Tell that to Coach, Nordstrom, Mercedes, American Express, Toll Brothers, and all the other public companies that serve the "High End" consumer...how those numbers looking?

I love reading posts on here that are helpful, and I usually enjoy TravelGuy's stuff - it makes me laugh - but this was not helpful and was completely wrong in many areas.

smtravelor