caribbeansun

Is it just me or do most of the HCC properties seem rather small?

1,200 sq ft 2 BR in Turks
2,300 sq ft 3 BR in HH
1,200 sq ft 2 BR in Maui
2,800 sq ft 4 BR in Maui
1,700 sq ft 2 BR in Big Island
2,000 sq ft 3 BR in Costa Rica

I've ignored the stuff in the western mountains as they are of no interest to me.

want2travelmore

I guess it depends on what you are comparing them to, but compared to other destination clubs except for the Premier level of Ultimate Escapes HCC properties are going to be smaller as they are just now inching up to average property values of $1MM. Of the ones you've listed I've only been to the Turks and Caicos property but I'd argue it functions as a larger property because of the way the outdoor patio integrates with the living space. With about a 75% or better chance of a favorable tropical breeze, and being about 80% covered, it is a very useable space. You are literally 20 - 30 paces from being on the beach off the back patio and about half that and down about 6 stairs out the front door to the pool. Of the entire boutique 36 unit complex the HCC unit location is tied with one other for best placement.

But your point is valid if you are comparing to most other DCs with much, much higher dues and deposit requirements.

LTTravel

That's all $850,000-$1,000,000 buys. The larger home in Maui is actually worth $2 miliion. If you compare these sizes to the DC's with $3 million homes, they are not 3x larger.
No one has a 6000 sq ft home in Costa Rica or a 8400 sq ft home in Maui, 6900 sq ft home in HH or 5100 sq ft home on the Big Island.

caribbeansun

I'm not looking for something 3x the size but I would expect something that's sufficiently large to be comfortable. I'm not comparing it to other DC properties as that's not really relevant to me - what's relevant is comparing it in terms of living space that's available vs. what I'm used to, what I live in and what, IMO, would seem comfortable.

I should have left the Hawaii properties off the list as I'm not as knowledgeable about that real estate market. However, in the Caribbean (including Turks) you can certainly get something closer to 2,000 sq. ft for a 2BD and for not a great deal over $1M with great amenities.

1,200 sq. ft for a 2BD is very small - carve off the bedrooms, bathrooms and hallways and you're left with a tiny kitchen, eating area, great room.

I guess I was thinking that anything smaller than 2,000 sq ft for a 2BD is kind of small.

saluki

It's obviously all a trade-off depending on the specific locale. Personally, I would sacrifice size for a preferred location and amenities (on the beach vs. further away, etc.).

Bourne started a poll that dealt with this topic.

LTTravel

It depends on where you are from and what you are used to . 2000 sq ft in Manhattan is a large 4 bedroom.
As Saluki says, it depends on whether you want beachfront or garden view, ski-in ski-out or van to the ski slopes.

Kagehitokiri

yes HCC could do better, (pretty much every club could IMHO, although i was impressed by every ciel property) but they do pretty well, and it seems like (especially at HCC's pricepoint) they probably really have to look at attitudes about the places they buy in.

TravelGuy

I totally agree with your assessment of the HCC Turks property. It may be my favorite HCC property. The unit flows forward into the multi-tier deck and into the beach so it's like an "infinity" living room (the glass wall opens totally). Right out the door of the unit is a beautiful Tuscan style court-yard and pool that is usually vacant due to the boutique style of the resort. I'd sacrifice size for this quality of experience any day.

I'm not an expert on Turks RE but I really don't believe you could get a perfect location like HCC has with a larger size and still be in their price range. Some of the more expensive DC properties that I saw in Turks were bigger but not located as well (some not even on the beach!).

Desties

The Ulitmate Escapes Premiere property is twice as big as HCC's in Turks & Caicos, but the UE property is out in the back of the Somerset on the croquet field, unlike the UE Signature home which is only a bit bigger but is right on Grace Bay Beach.

It's all a trade-off. A 4,000 square foot home in the mountain foothills will run you the same as a 900 square foot flat in NYC. If the square footage is small in any DC, it means that you are either right on the water or in the heart of a pretty exciting metropolitan hotspot.

caribbeansun

All fair points about location and the premium for that as well as size being a relative thing as well.

It does make it rather difficult to assess a club's properties though when you're kind of limited to a couple of pics and square footage measurements. We've all seen pics that aren't true representations of what you will actually get - not that I'm suggesting HCC does this.

Thanks for the input

tripTX

And on the other end... We are taking the extended family to the Breckenridge lodge location in a month to spread out over 4,800 sf. We're hoping to do the same next summer at the 9,600 sf home in Steamboat.

I've been to the Turks location. Though it is one of HCC's smallest, it is amazing. I think HCC has a good balance of property sizes. The Turks or some of the other locations (NYC, Tuscany) may not be great for large family trips. But when you are wanting to take a larger group, you can choose from one of the ones above... or the Outer Banks (4,700 sf), Punta Mita (3,500 sf), Winter Park (2,900 sf 4BR), or even the upcountry Maui location (2,800 sf on 3 acres with your own golf holes).

This will be our 8th trip. They've ranged from big family gatherings to 2-4 person trips. So far we've found perfect fits for our needs.

pwrshift

And caribbeansun's analysis doesn't even include NYC which is barely big enough for 2 people, and pulls the average size down even further. However, NYC is probably one of HCC's most in-demand destination which says size isn't all that matters.

Most 2 bdrm upper level timeshares are about 1300 sq ft and more than enough space for 4 adults and even some kids - most Marriott's have 8 person occupancy. For 2 people it's too much space.

Whether we want to admit it or not, as our kids grow up and leave the nest they create their own families and going on a holiday with the old man doesn't have the same appeal it did when they were little. In fact, a survey on TUG a while back touched on this very subject and I couldn't believe the number of Tuggers who thought going on a holiday with their parents or in-laws was a real turn off and could negatively affect their marriages.

Times change, just like your vacation needs will change as time passes. Unit size is a plus to me with HCC as I'm often tripping alone or with one other person.

But there are more similarities between TS and DC units than many here want to admit -- you have to make your own beds or pay more, daily maid service is an extra, etc. Too many DC's are quite a hike from where you really want to be -- often with a shuttle to the beach.

Hotel resorts may cost more for a 1 bedroom suite in the short term, but you don't have to book them a year ahead and can cancel without penalty up to 6 p.m. on check in day. And room service is a call away, restaurants are an elevator ride away, and valet parking is in the building.

And then there's the problem of two people having a romantic getaway holiday in a 4 bedroom DC house and away from the prime core of the location! There are times the wife doesn't want to make beds, wash dishes, and make meals.

Steamboat Bill

I am not sure if I agree that HCC units are small. Perhaps the ones you are interested in may be smaller than the ones you are not interested in.

Here are some I have been to

NYC - very small, but great location, 2 adults and perhaps 1-2 kids on the pull out couch. Nothing is cheap in NYC. Quintess has 2-3 bedroom (?) units in the same building (1600 Broadway) thus you can join that club if this is a deal breaker location.

Turks - perfect for 2 adults and 2 kids (or teens) as the second bedroom has 2 twin beds. The location is awesome and this property alone makes my membership fee worth it.

Stowe - huge 3 bedroom 4 bathroom home in a great spa resort location Stoweflake. It is not ski-in/out

Hilton Head - large 3 bedroom 3 bath home

La Costa - large 2 bedroom 3 bathroom , larger than Turks

Deer Valley - 2 bedroom 3 bath, great location

Orlando - 3 bedroom 3 bath, very large next to the Omni resort

Summary - You get what you pay for.

Thus, HCC will have smaller properties than Quintess or ER or LUSSO, but is MUCH cheaper. HCC will be perfect for a family of 4 with occasional extra guests in larger homes. There will also be a trade off in terms of smaller homes in choice locations and larger homes in less choice locations. There are about 34 choices now and if you average 3 weeks of use per year, it will take you 11 years to visit all their properties even if they never buy another home.

caribbeansun

As mentioned in the OP I ignored the mountain properties - I don't ski and I don't care about those. It's great that they have these larger properties for those that do but when they aren't where I'm interested in it doesn't do me much good.

The - you get what you pay for thing is well questionable IMO. I agree that in general this is true however when you look at paying $80,000 and $2,500 a week in fees I'm not so convinced relative to the other options that are available.

I've read a number of the threads here relating to HCC and I'm seeing posts about a small property in Mexico that had numerous operating issues and noise, the OBX property that didn't sound like it was ready for occupancy, the NYC unit that's tiny and arguably not in a preferred location.

There's no maid service during the week or you pay extra for that, lack of simple things like beach towels, salt and pepper shakers of all things at some locations.

I guess my expectation was that a DC would be several steps above a TS and better than a hotel suite but I'm starting to wonder if that's really true. Sorry, I've diverged from my original topic.

Bourne

Based on your comments above and requirements stated, the cheapest club that would fit your bill will be UE Signature.

As HCC is being used as comparison, UE Signature has argubaly better and bigger homes, better location, daily maid service, on site concierge etc...

That said, it also comes with a price tag in terms of higher dues and deposit.

As vineyarder put it in another post, HCC is a notch below other full service DCs in comparison and you have to adjust your expectation based on what you are willing to pay for.

As much as HCC is comparable to Westin Kaanapali in quality, both do not even come close to Grand Wailea in comparison. ( Not comparing Maui unit, just in case I get flamed....)

There are multiple DCs out there. HCC and UE Premier at the bottom and Solstice at the top. The quality and service you want is a factor of the price you are willing to pay.

__________________
The Nile is a river in Egypt......

TarheelTraveler

HCC is not a Quintess or an ER, nor would anyone expect that given the deposits, dues and $1M properties. However, it is still a great value and serves a different market need. Nonetheless, I suspect it is still several steps above most timeshares based on prior posters. Same with most hotel suites. From my personal experience, I have yet to stay in a DC property that doesn't blow away every timeshare or hotel suite that I've seen. But considering every property is a $3M or so new property, I would expect that.

vineyarder

I certainly hope that my trip report on Playa Del carmen would not cause you not to join a DC; HCC was very responsive in getting the initial issues resolved as well as they could, given that it is a leased property (i.e. the A/C, towels, leaking window & window that wouldn't closed were all resolved by Monday)